My heaters keep failing and I thought it was salt!!

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ASchafer

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Aug 28, 2013
8
Hi everyone.

I am the head of maintenance for two hotels and about two years ago we converted our pools and spas to salt water. Since then we have been losing heat exchangers to the tune of one every 6 months or so, in each heater! I thought this was due to the salt water but after several hours of combing through the posts here I am seeing that this shouldn't be causing me any additional problems so now I'm wondering what might be wrong and I am hoping you guys can help!

Here are the details of the pool that is currently giving me problems:

Indoor pool
Fiberglass wall, concrete floor
16,000 gallons
87 degrees
PH is kept pretty steady at 7.5
Chlorine residual is kept around 4.0 - 5.0 ppm
Salt residual is kept around 4000 ppm
Intellichlor IC60 SWG with Intellichem controller
Hayward H250ASME boiler
70 - 75 gpm flow rate

If there are any other details you need just ask.

We had been using the non ASME boiler prior to switching to salt and were replacing heat exchangers in those every 1 1/2 - 2 years. After the first couple failed after the salt conversion my sales guy told me the ASME model was rated for salt and that running salt through the other ones automatically voided the warranty. I switched all of my boilers over to the ASME and within 8 months all four had failed. Now I have one failing again and to make things worse, the ASME exchanger has been on backorder with no estimated date of delivery available.

So, are there any ideas what may be my problem if not the salt? Is Hayward just a crappy boiler? Please help!!

On a secondary question. We are looking into switching to a different brand boiler or even an indirect heat exchanger system since Hayward can't seem to get me the parts I need and have had such a bad track record so far. Any advice on what would be better for me?

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me!
 
Are the Hayward units the induced draft models?

Your sales guy isn't very smart other than being able to sell you on the ASME rating. No where does it state that a salt pool HAS to have ASME for the heat exchanger or it's voided. ASME really has to do with a commercial rating of equipment. Places like Hospitals and such have to use ASME rated equipment. As you've experienced, your old heat exchangers, non ASME, failed far less than these new ones.

I also tell you and Hayward will never admit it, they have a production issue with the induced draft heaters heat exchangers. I have seen it myself on many of these units after as little as 6 months. The problem is in the extrusion of the tubes. They extruded them too far and thus made them thinner.

Dump your sales guy and start buying better equipment. If I were you I would go to Rheem/Raypak units. If you want piece of mind, they also off ASME units. They also have commercial model units that are quit a bit expensive but I can not vouch for them as I have never installed or serviced one yet.
 
Yes, I have the induced draft model.

I talked to the contractor who originally built the pool 11 years ago and he told me he quit using Hayward and has been installing Pentair boilers exclusively. I asked him about Raypak and he said he has used them and has never had a problem with them. He is just using Pentair for everything now so that is why he uses their boilers.

So what I am getting from all this is that I should have ditched the Hayward units years ago and I would have saved enough money to go on a month long cruise with my wife by now!

I have spent the last couple hours looking at the Raypak and Pentair models and have been leaning more and more to the Raypak. The unit I was looking at is the http://www.raypak.com/product.aspx?id=2234F598-DCC9-47A3-950D-BE959D8B65AB (R268A Model). I am impressed with the warranty that appears to give me 5 years on the heat exchanger as opposed to the 1 year Hayward offers!

So is there a better model for my needs? Or a better brand? Have any of you seen anything in my specs that I might be doing wrong that will endanger the life of a new boiler?

Thanks again for the help!!
 
I was actually looking for a boiler with a titanium heat exchanger and was unable to find one. The only thing I found with titanium was the indirect heater that required an external source of hot water to heat my pool. Here is one I found: http://www.poolheatersvti.com/swimmingpoolheaters3.htm.

I am not opposed to something like this and I actually talked to a salesman about it and he told me that it is only designed to MAINTAIN my temperature but I would need an actual heater to get up to temp each time I need to drain and clean it. That could work but I'm thinking I want to stick with a regular boiler.

Is there a boiler on the market that has a titanium heat exchanger?
 
Titanium is only found in electric heat pumps. Again though, you can get a regular heater and as long as you maintain your chemicals correctly units can last a long time. The levels of salt in a pool is not that bad on heat exchangers. Some people use it as a way to over sell a product.

Are your heaters located outside or do they sit inside in some sort of room?

Now the price is considerable more but also look at these units as well.
http://www.raypak.com/product.aspx?id=3 ... ae28c3f3dd
 
My heaters are in the mechanical room with all the other equipment including the air conditioning unit for the pool room. The venting goes up through the entire 3 story building and out through the roof.

That actually was one of my thoughts; would an outdoor installation be better since they would have unlimited fresh air? I think it would be doable for my application if so.
 

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Since they are inside and you have to exhaust them three stories up, do you have any extra blower venting on the units? What about fresh air coming into the room, do you have any type of vent providing that?

Having good air flow can also help prevent condensation from possibly building up in the units.
 
There is no power venting installed. The length of the run up through the roof is right at the limits allowed for venting in Hayward's manual.

There is fresh air to the room but it is just grates in the wall with no blowers installed. I have suspected they may be smaller than they should be.
 
ASchafer said:
Any advice on what would be better for me?
Would an outdoor installation be better since they would have unlimited fresh air?
Click to expand...

Get the 408 instead of the 268. Believe it or not, the bigger heater is more efficient. True, It uses more gas while it runs, but it does not have to run as long...
Yes, and may be even cheaper than getting a power vent, depending on your layout.
 
The bigger the heater, if you have room for it, won't have to work as hard to keep the pool warm. You always need plenty of fresh air in the room. Read the I/O manual, Indoor Installation portion for correct venting requirements for this model.
 
ps0303 said:
Now the price is considerable more but also look at these units as well.
http://www.raypak.com/product.aspx?id=3 ... ae28c3f3dd
Click to expand...

I did end up choosing this unit. I found a company in CA that had it on special for $3000 so I decided to go with it. It should be here next week and I am looking forward to seeing how many years it lasts! :) Thank you for the recommendation!!

Thank you so much to all of you for your input and advice! I have learned a lot over the past couple days!!
 
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