Suction too low to operate Hayward Pool VAC

[eejeep99]

Hello and thanks in advance. Im at my end, I just bought a house with a pool and iv spent most of my time getting the pool/spa to operate at 100%. My latest problem is that the suction is too low to operate the new Hayward pool VAC I just spent $400 on :x.

Here is what I have and know:
-Pool is about 25k gallons
-Hayward filter with 24" grids
-vacuum hose operates from skimmer
-pressure is at 15 normal and gets to 19-22 before backwash.
-two inlet ports one from pool and other from spa drain (I cant tell where the pool main drain is as the is only two options for water to come in)
-two outlet ports one to pool (Which splits to two holes on pool wall where water returns) and the other to spa.
-1 HP pump
- 1 1/2" pipes
- all new grids in filter
-new backwash valve and assembly
-pressure is at 15 with filters completely removed (did this to check for filter problems)

Ok so heres my problem, I just bought a new Hayward pool vacuum and the suction is too low to operate it, it just sits there. It came with flow gauge and on the gauge it has "Max and Min" window to check flow and when i hook up the hose it reads below the min by far. The suction on my hose is comparable to a shop vac or less.

Heres what ive done so far, i got my shop vac and used it to suck out anything from the skimmer port where the vac hose attaches to and nothing came out. I completely took apart the filter, grids, manifold etc and cleaned it and inspected it. Iv verified that im using the correct amounts of D.E. and chemicals. And now I'm at a loss. My thoughts are that my pump is bad but I used a mirror to check the impeller and its fine, I think i might need a stronger pump and if im going to go that route then ill just go with a variable speed........Please Help!

Thanks

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, Please add your pool details to your signature and location to your profile as described HERE as it will help us help you. I am not clear what kind / size of filter you have, but it may be way too small.

If your clean pressure is 15psi, you should be backwashing at 20-25% above that, which would be around 18psi as you go above that, there flow rate will drop alot.

Are you saying you are not sure where the pool floor drain is plumbed in? Likely it is to the 2nd hole in the bottom of the skimmer under the basket. This actually could be the problem with the vac depending on how you hook it up.

If you are getting good flow without the vac, then likely the pump and filter and plumbing is fine.

How are you hooking the vac up to the skimmer?
Are there 2 holes? Rarely some floor drains are Teed into the skimmer plumbing underground which prevents you from closing off the floor and may be resulting in reduced suction for the vac.

 

[eejeep99]

Ok added the info that I know for sure in my signiture.

The skimmer in all the way on one side of my pool, the deep end. It has one hole at the very bottom of the skimmer, this is where i hook up the vac hose. I do not see another hole/port to connect to. Yes I am not sure where the floor drain of the pool is plumbed in. The suction is enough to operate the kreepy krauler but if pressure goes up to around 21 the suction is so low that the kreepy krauler stops working complely. Although the kreepy krauler will operate at normal pressure of 15 the suction is still too low to operate my new Hayward vac, the flow gauge it came with says the flow is below the min to operate it.

 

[jblizzle]

Sounds like you may be unfortunate to have the floor and skimmer connected underground with no ability to adjust the suction between the two.

There may not be a way to get the Hayward to work without going with a bigger pump (which seems like a bad idea). Which Hayward vac did you get? The navigator does not have a very good rep here.

You could consider The Pool Cleaner, they require less flow rate than most all other suction vacs, so it should work well for you.

 

[eejeep99]

I got the Hayward Pool Vac XL. It looks like I do have the skimmer and drain connection underground....so it sounds like my only options are to dig it up and add a valve? What if I plug the main drain temporarly? will pluggin it improve my suction? Also I am willing to get a stronger pump, but that raises the question, how do I know it would give me the suction that I need to operate the vac?......

 

[eejeep99]

...Is there a way to determine where the connection for the main drain and skimmer would be underground so if I decide to get crazy and dig it up i can minimize my digging.....Geeze this is going to be nuts

 

[jblizzle]

You should confirm that they are tied together. Try plugging the skimmer hole and see if water keeps moving with the suction valve only on the pool. If water keeps moving, then it must to pulling from the floor drain.

IIRC, there are some skimmers that have an insert in a single hole to allow you to divert between them. Maybe add some pictures.

 

[duraleigh]

When you hook up the pool vac, pump running, do you see any air bubbles in the pump strainer basket?

 

[eejeep99]

OK , i added some pics with captions. Thanks for the help so far. I'm going to plug the skimmer and check if there is still water flowing right now. And there is some air in the pump basket but very minimal not even a 1/2 inch air bubble and sometimes it looks like there is no air at all.

 

[eejeep99]

That first pic of the inlet pipes also shows a third pipe far right, that is attache to some kind of blower motor and when i turn it on alot of air shoots out of all three ports on my spa?? and i have no idea what that is for

 

[eejeep99]

Ok, I just plugged the skimmer hole and YES there is still water coming in to the pump and its flowing out strong. I check that hole on the side of the pool and there is no suction or flow out and valve is at pool flow in.

 

[eejeep99]

I tried the valves in all possible combinations and the hole on the side of the pool wall has no suction or flow what so ever. If I get a stronger pump shouldnt it have enough flow to run my new vac? Worse case anyway to tell where the pvc pipe would join (the drain and skimmer) underground?...............thanks for the help so far

 

[Charlie_R]

No other pipes sticking up anywhere near your equipment pad? I ask because that mystery port in the pool looks like an old vacuum connector. Whether it's a suction or pressure, I couldn't tell you.

If you have to dig, I'd start right next to the equipment pad, and see how many lines there are. It could be the pad was poured after several changes were made to the plumbing leaving "unused" lines capped off just under the pad.

 

[eejeep99]

There actually is one mystery pipe sticking up out of the ground next to the outlet ports but it's only 1 inch pipe and I thought maybe it was some kind of airgap for the spa as I know sometimes spas have those. Other than that there is no more mystery pipes sticking up out of the concrete pad but that is an excellent suggestion that there may be pipes under the ground

 

[eejeep99]

So all said and done is it worth digging and finding the pipe if it even exists so I can split and control the flow from drain skimmer and vacuum or should I buy bigger pump to remedy the problem or just leave it as is. As it is now the vacuum works with the creepy Crawley but is inconsistent and I have to babysit it to make sure it works everyday

 

[Charlie_R]

Until you can separate the main drain and skimmer, I doubt that a higher volume/pressure pump is going to do much good.

As I see it, your best option would be to do what you can to do separate valved runs for your drain and skimmer. You might get lucky and find where that odd pipe in the pool is plumbed. If you can find where that goes, valve it into the current pump and I bet your robot will work like a champ.

 

[eejeep99]

Ok that's what I'm going to do, start digging. Thanks for all your help!!!! Ill keep you all posted. Truth is I won't do it for at least a couple weeks, too busy with work but ill update when I have the run down