Results Analysis Please

[dfiletti]

Hey Folks!

Waiting on my TF-100 to arrive in the meantime, I've been using the Pentair and the Anthony Sylvan store testing as another data point. Here are my results; I bolded the question I would most like anyone's/ everyones input on.

FC: .50 ppm (I'll add a little less than 1/2 of a 182 oz bottle of bleach this evening)
TC: .52 ppm
PH: 7.5
CH: 170 ppm
TA: 80 ppm
CYA: 25 ppm
Copper: 0 ppm
Iron: 0 ppm
TDS: 326
Temp: 86

[My Pentair test kit backs up these results for PH and TA anyway. I show slightly higher FC, TC values.]

Been swinging up and down on the FC # a fair bit over the past few days -makes sense to me as my CYA is low, plus it's been hot and sunny. I know I need to up my CYA but I'm about to go salt so I figure these are my last frontiers and doing either incorrectly, means exchanging water so I thought I'd save the most 'dangerous' for last.

I know my CH is a bit low, but it's a new pool, and they'll be coming back out to re-polish the Hydrazzo so I'm not going to monkey with that # just now.

I'm thinking I'm nearly ready to add salt to the pool (been waiting for the requisite 30 days from plater before adding salt). So from what I can tell, I'll need to bring up my CYA to about 80 ppm (please confirm that 80 ppm is a good target just before salting the water and turning the system on).

Assuming this is correct, the pool calculator says I need to add 184 fluid oz. to go from 25 - 80 ppm -sure sounds like a lot, is this correct? Again. an oz. of prevention... If so, should I/ can I buy liquid Cyanuric Acid from like, the hardware store? Is this the same as muriatic acid or am I confused on this? What is the non pool store 'raw' form of "stabilizer" under the covers? And where should I be able to purchase (presumably) 184 fluid oz. Or is this one of the few things I must get from the pool store? -I'm sure I read this somewhere but I just looked and can't find the answer... I DID read where it takes +/- a week to dissolve so I'll not ask THAT obvious question at least... I also read where upping CYA will lower PH is it recommended to add Borax at the same time and if so how much/ when?

For my assault strategy, I'm thinking I'll tackle CYA then add "643 lbs" of salt once CYA is at about 80 -sound right?

Loads of questions I know, just trying to do this right. Once again, thanks for this great resource and your most valuable input.

Dan

 

[Butterfly]

Just in case you missed it, I recommend you read the article on "Water Balance for SWG's" located in Pool School.

Pool School can be accessed at the top of each page or link in my sig.

Since this is Fathers' Day weekend, site traffic/replies will be a little slower.

CYA (cyanuric acid) and muriatic acid are NOT the same!!

Muriatic acid is used to REDUCE/LOWER your pH.
I buy my muriatic acid from Lowes or Home Depot (watch the %...I get 31.45% which I think is what the calculator is based on).

Cyanuric Acid (CYA,a/k/a/ Stabalizer,a/k/a Conditioner) is NOT the same as muriatic acid.

CYA is used to protect your chlorine from the sun. :sunny:
When adding CYA, for a SWG, the recommended level is 60 to 80. Remember when adding CYA, always shoot for the lower level and add more if needed. It takes up to a week to show in testing and is a PITA to reduce....so you do NOT want to overshoot your target!

I am happy for you that you will soon have the TF Test kit. It will save you $$$ and you will have control of your water!

Your FC should not drop below 2ppm!

 

[Guest]

I'm thinking I'm nearly ready to add salt to the pool (been waiting for the requisite 30 days from plater before adding salt). So from what I can tell, I'll need to bring up my CYA to about 80 ppm (please confirm that 80 ppm is a good target just before salting the water and turning the system on).
70-80 ppm is fine
Assuming this is correct, the pool calculator says I need to add 184 fluid oz. to go from 25 - 80 ppm -sure sounds like a lot, is this correct?
You have made an error there, the pool calculator gives weight and volume measurements, not fluid oz.(Use the weight, it's more accurate) since CYA is a granular product, not a liquid (There is a liquid slurry CYA product but it's very expensive and, other than dissolving much faster really offers not advantages over regular granular CYA)
Again. an oz. of prevention... If so, should I/ can I buy liquid Cyanuric Acid from like, the hardware store? Is this the same as muriatic acid or am I confused on this?
You are confused, they are totally different chemicals with totally different uses. There are many 'acids' so don't think they are the same because they are both acids! Acetic acid is vinegar, ascorbic acid is vitamin c, lactic acid is found in milk, amino acids make up proteins. While these are all acids they are all VERY different and have different uses!
What is the non pool store 'raw' form of "stabilizer" under the covers? And where should I be able to purchase (presumably) 184 fluid oz. Or is this one of the few things I must get from the pool store?
Stabilzier is CYA or cyanuric acid. There is NO 'raw form' and yes, you need to get it at the pool store or in the pool department of your local Wamart, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Lowes, etc. There is no generic substitute on this one. It's a sepcialized pool chemical. It is sold by the pound in containers ranging from 1 lb to 50 lbs or more. The most usual sizes are around 1.5-2 lbs, 4 lbs and 8 lbs but you will find it in just about any size if you look hard and long enough. If you use the pool calculator it will give you a WEIGHT measrement in oz. To convert that to lbs. divid the oz by 16.
I also read where upping CYA will lower PH is it recommended to add Borax at the same time and if so how much/ when?
It has very little effect on pH so don't even worry about it. You SWG will raise the pH enough on it's own!

For my assault strategy, I'm thinking I'll tackle CYA then add "643 lbs" of salt once CYA is at about 80 -sound right?
Why make it so complicated? Just figure out how much CYA and Salt you need, put most of the salt in the pool (leave out a few bags) and put all but a few lbs of the CYA in. Just dump the salt in the pool, pour the cya in the skimmer, don't clean the filter for a week and run the pump 24/7 for about the first 48 hours. Test your salt and CYA in a weeks time and see if you need to bump them up a bit, If so add the rest of the salt and CYA amd retest a week later.
Loads of questions I know, just trying to do this right. Once again, thanks for this great resource and your most valuable input.

Dan

It's just a swimming pool! You are overthinking everything and making it a lot harder than it really is! Relax a bit.

 

[dfiletti]

It's not 'just a swimming pool'

It's just a swimming pool! You are over thinking everything and making it a lot harder than it really is! Relax a bit.

Guilty as charged I'm afraid. I do tend to want to veraciously understand all there is to know about a subject, nor am I always concise about asking questions of those generous folks that know a great deal more than I do.

Begin rant:

However, for me at least, the statement "it's just a swimming pool!" is woefully inadequate. Yes, it is a hole in the ground containing water. That much is certain. However, I personally have 100's of man-hours in that hole.

I took down, cleared and ground-out, 30 trees myself -some of which were 37" in diameter. That was at least a hundred man hours right there. I did this with a chainsaw, a garden tractor, and a log roller (I did rent a stump grinder though).

Beyond this I have perhaps another huge chunk of time in site clearing and preliminary site work, before the pool company even showed up.

I Installed my own construction fence, and a construction entrance.

I did my own surveying, (learned this skills on line) -got construction and grading plans past the township engineer, who is a known *******.

Taught myself AutoCAD.

I did my own final grading. Moving no less than 30 tons of soil/ sub-grade in the process. I dramatically reshaped many hundreds of square feet of land as part of this.

Planned and built a 90' long, 8' wide storm water management swale, that works -we've had some torential down-poors, and I've watched the water flow though it quite nicely.

I did my own post and rail fencing with safety wire; 460 linear feet of it.

I planned and built 288' of walkway to two separate entrances -no small task there, let me tell you. -To be fair, there's still more work to do there, but it's getting close.

Passed final inspection with flying colors -to the amazement of ALL of my neighbors who have had piddly issues with all of their own, smaller township-involved projects.

Although I am just not the 'write the check' kind of guy, I did pay to have a crew do the Hydro-seeding (well worth the $$ there -let me tell you).

So you see, for me, it's more than 'just a pool' it's the culmination of many, many, many hours of hard work, and a steep learning curve in areas that in some cases, I had no clue about going in. I learned about these things by reading everything I could and, in some cases, asking petulant questions and making incorrect assumptions. This is the way I learn these things.

As for relaxing, there will be time for that when I'm dead I'm a high energy kind of guy, sitting still and/ or doing nothing is just not attractive to me. The up-side of this; I got a shed-load of stuff done for this project in a pretty short time-frame, and did not drop a tree through my house... and I learned a lot in the process.

End rant.

Perhaps the above provides some context for my; we'll call it 'enthusiasm', -perhaps not.

Dan

 

[Guest]

I stand by what I said.
It's just s swimming pool and they are easy to care for. They become a problem when you try to micromanage them. The purpose of a pool is to enjoy it, not stress over it.Once you have gotten you feet wet, so to speak, you will understand better what I am saying.

 

[dfiletti]

We do not disagree. I have no desire to micromanage, simply understand. I gather maintaining the pool will be quite easy when I have information and experience to do so effectively. I enjoy my pool as much as anyone -if not more for having been such an integral part in it's completion.

Update: BTW "Stress" is a human invention. Every other specious on the planet requires 'stress' to grow.

Dan