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Thread: High CYA Level

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    High CYA Level

    I finally bought a test kit that alows me to test the cya and it appears to be very high.
    I got the Taylor kit, and for those familiar, you mix the pool water with a chemical and then drop in in the tube until a black dot is no longer visible.
    The dot disappears for me almost immediately at a good 1/2" below the 100ppm line.
    From what I was able to find searching, it could make my chlorine all but ineffective and would explain my >200TA readings.
    Am I understanding this right?

    Is there anything I can do to lower it? Could the test be wrong? Are the Sox going to win after getting whooped by Detroit?

    I am truly sorry if this question has been posted before but the search function will not allow me search for "high" or "cya" and I don't think many people post the full out cyanuric acid spelling so...

    I should add:

    I have a 20K gallon inground vinyl pool with a cartridge filter, one skimmer one main drain two returns.
    The chlorine is fed with a polaris drop feeder that requires the use of dichlor granules.
    It is just coming back from being shocked with cal-hypo to 15ppm because the water went green after a rain storm that used up all the chlorine in the hopper while I was away. 3 days of 0 chlorine + rain = muck. It has dropped back down to 5ppm as of today.

    The numbers go like this:

    5 tc
    5 fc
    7.1 ph (getting it stable after the rain water)
    190 ta
    250 ch
    ? cya
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    Re: High CYA Level

    Next time you post, tell about what kind of pool, size and gal of pool, kind of filter, kind of pump and a full set of test reading.

    As for the high CYA, I think you are going to have to drain out some water and refill. I would start with taking out one third of the water and refilling. Then take a new set of readings.
    Hotrod30

    20 X 40 foot vinyl Borates and Salt Pool
    Rolachem Chlorine Feeder
    Hayward 27 inch sand filter with 80 lbs of pea gravel
    Jacuzzi Splash Pak SP55 DE filter in parallel
    Pentair VF3050 pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Ditto. The only way to get your water under control is a partial drain, and refill. With CYA that high you will fight a losing battle of green water.....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    I just read the post by waterbear describing what info was needed and was adding the info as you posted.

    The only thing I think I missed is the pump type. It is a hayward northstar 1.5hp. Major overkill in hindsight on the pump.

    So draining the pool is the only way to get the cya down? Will it hurt anything if I wait until the end of the season?
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by dandjpool
    I just read the post by waterbear describing what info was needed and was adding the info as you posted.

    The only thing I think I missed is the pump type. It is a hayward northstar 1.5hp. Major overkill in hindsight on the pump.

    So draining the pool is the only way to get the cya down? Will it hurt anything if I wait until the end of the season?
    It's the ONLY way. Been thru it 3 times.

    will it HURT anything? The higher your CYA, the more chlorine your pool requires. So it costs you more money, especially if you have an algea bloom, in terms of the costs of buying enough chlorine to "shock" the pool. The higher the CYA, the higher the Shock level. Higher numbers of shock level also require a test kit to test chlorine higher than 5ppm. Do you have a test for that?

    Believe me, I know. My water bill is over $100 a month for 5,000 gallons. We have the highest water rates in our state. Draining was not an easy decision. But the payoff was worth it, in the end....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    That makes sense. We have an auto-cover and close the pool when it rains.
    Very little gets in through the vent at the end of the cover but it is usually enough to get the chlorine feeder working overtime.
    When the hopper was out for 2-3 days the pool went green quick and the cover was closed.
    I normally keep the chlorine at about 4-5ppm to compensate for this and it seemed to be working.
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Believe me, I know. My water bill is over $100 a month for 5,000 gallons. We have the highest water rates in our state. Draining was not an easy decision. But the payoff was worth it, in the end....
    That is exactly what I was thinking. Very expensive to refill.
    Plus the down time when it is getting hot just plain stinks.

    You live in Illinois. You know what it is like to wait all winter for the pool. Even a couple days is too long.
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    It was just the cost for me. Honestly a partial drain and refill should only take a few short hours.

    Well, let me think.

    I suppose it depends on your fill water. Really cold fill water makes it a tad more pleasant. If your fill water has issues.... my fill water is good. We fill and jump in. I have a heater you see.

    Just drain below the skimmer. Refill. Wait a few days...Repeat. Ditto, ditto.

    Retest after the second refill....

    Edit ~ you don't have to wait a few days to swim while doing a partial drain. I can't think of any reason why?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    That is a great idea.

    I was thinking that since we need to replace the liner soon I would hold off and do everything at once but dichlor isn't cheap.
    I think I will do just that. Drain, fill, repeat. I have a heater too but I will freeze my butt off before I pay $1.23 a therm which is the June rate for nicor.

    Are you sensing a general theme here? I'm not really cheap but I don't like spending money, much.
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    Re: High CYA Level

    You need to look at WHY your CYA is so high to help prevent the problem from reoccuring. Did you know that dichlor adds MORE CYA to the water than trichlor does? For every 1 ppm FC added by the dichlor you are also adding .9 ppm CYA! This means that if you lose 2 ppm FC daily (a farily common amount) in 10 days you have added 18 ppm CYA by using dichlor, in one month you have added 54 ppm CYA, and in two months time you have a severly overstabilized pool!!!!!!!!!
    Unless you want to drain and refill monthly stop using dichlor for your main chlorine source!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    You need to look at WHY your CYA is so high to help prevent the problem from reoccuring. Did you know that dichlor adds MORE CYA to the water than trichlor does? For every 1 ppm FC added by the dichlor you are also adding .9 ppm CYA! This means that if you lose 2 ppm FC daily (a farily common amount) in 10 days you have added 18 ppm CYA by using dichlor, in one month you have added 54 ppm CYA, and in two months time you have a severly overstabilized pool!!!!!!!!!
    Unless you want to drain and refill monthly stop using dichlor for your main chlorine source!
    Good point!!!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    You need to look at WHY your CYA is so high to help prevent the problem from reoccuring. Did you know that dichlor adds MORE CYA to the water than trichlor does? For every 1 ppm FC added by the dichlor you are also adding .9 ppm CYA! This means that if you lose 2 ppm FC daily (a farily common amount) in 10 days you have added 18 ppm CYA by using dichlor, in one month you have added 54 ppm CYA, and in two months time you have a severly overstabilized pool!!!!!!!!!
    Unless you want to drain and refill monthly stop using dichlor for your main chlorine source!
    I remember reading that somewhere on this board. I have an auto feeder that only uses dichlor and I was using to shock until I read that post.
    (As a matter of fact I was just sprinkling it into the pool without dissolving first. I bleached the **** out of my liner before I knew better.)
    I use cal-hypo now and dissolve it completely in a bucket of water before adding.

    We are out at our lake house most weekends so an auto-feeder is a must.
    Can you recommend a better option than this old polaris drop feeder that demands dichlor?
    My wife swims every weekday and messing with the water balance all week is a pain after being gone for the weekend.
    I thought about getting a salt water chlorinator but it seems like more trouble than is't worth with all kinds of hidden costs.
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by dandjpool
    I remember reading that somewhere on this board. I have an auto feeder that only uses dichlor and I was using to shock until I read that post.
    (As a matter of fact I was just sprinkling it into the pool without dissolving first. I bleached the **** out of my liner before I knew better.)
    I use cal-hypo now and dissolve it completely in a bucket of water before adding.

    We are out at our lake house most weekends so an auto-feeder is a must.
    Can you recommend a better option than this old polaris drop feeder that demands dichlor?
    My wife swims every weekday and messing with the water balance all week is a pain after being gone for the weekend.
    I thought about getting a salt water chlorinator but it seems like more trouble than is't worth with all kinds of hidden costs.
    Be careful with the Cal-Hypo your CH reading can get too high....is your pool an AGP?

    There is a "liquidator" that feeds bleach like the di-chlor method.

    The other option is just keep an eye on the CYA and do partial drains and refills from time to time, if the water/costs are not an issue for you. This is costly tho.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    I looked at the liquidator a little. How does it measure the chlorine content to know when to add?
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by dandjpool
    I looked at the liquidator a little. How does it measure the chlorine content to know when to add?
    I don't know anything about it. I would suggest starting a new thread on the liquidator with your q's or doing a search and reading as much as you can about it.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    It looks like it has a manual "throttle" you would have to test, adjust, test, adjust, repeat until you got the right flow.
    If you have a chlorine draining occurence I guess you would have to manually add more or boost the liquidator.
    I'll have to do more research but in the mean time:

    I think I will drain, refill and then test chlorinating with bleach to see how much it takes.
    Bleach would be cheaper than dichlor and won't keep boosting the cya so it's worth a try.
    If it works and maintains I will really consider the liquidator.
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

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    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    OK, so I am draining the pool for the second time in 2 days. I drained a third of the water out yesterday, refilled, tested and the cya was still well over 100ppm and the TA still over 170 but they both did come down a little.
    I am going to drain it a little more this time to see if it has a better impact.
    Here is my jerry-rigged draining method:[attachment=0:13rzps6a]pool-draining.jpg[/attachment:13rzps6a] (You can see where I bleached the **** out of the liner)
    Please tell me if this is a bad idea. I have the vacuum hose on the other return pumping water out too.

    Am I going to have to just quit using my dichlor feeder when I get this straightened out?
    Would it be safe to assume that once I get this done my chlorine demand will decrease?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

  18. Back To Top    #18
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    I can't see the bleached areas??? Are you sure your not being too hard on yourself...

    Yes, I recommend not using the feeder....

    Yes, your chlorine demand will decrease...

    Yes, you are doing the right thing....

    Please pass the POP to dandjpool....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  19. Back To Top    #19
    dandjpool's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    I can't see the bleached areas??? Are you sure your not being too hard on yourself...

    Yes, I recommend not using the feeder....

    Yes, your chlorine demand will decrease...

    Yes, you are doing the right thing....

    Please pass the POP to dandjpool....
    What is the POP?

    OK, but the feeder is expensive and convenient. The dichlor is going to cause this again for sure?
    Could it be the former owner of the pool was adding too much "conditioner" and it just built up over time?
    There were empty bottles of cya in the shed.
    What if I just shock with bleach? I think I know the answer to all these questions...

    Look a little close at the picture. That isn't the water line you see. It's the bleached white faux tile decoration
    Pool configuration:
    20K Gal inground vinyl liner-1 skim 1 main 2 return
    hayward c3000 cart. filter
    hayward northstar 1.5hp pump
    hayward 250k btu heater
    polaris watermatic G1000 chlorine feeder
    polaris c-300 orp controller
    Polaris 380 with booster
    aquamatic hydraulic pool cover

  20. Back To Top    #20
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA Level

    OOOOOOH, now I see.

    Yes, you know the answer.

    Look, chlorinators are fine, provided you understand the chemistry, and closely monitor them. They will lower your PH, so you'll have to watch that. They WILL raise your CYA, so you'll have to monitor that and replace with fresh water from time to time.

    But by far the biggest drawback is the cost associated with these products, not only for the purchase themselves but also for the products to raise your ph, routinely, and water replacement, if you pay for water.

    Yes, it is possible the unknowing prior owner thought he/she needed stabilizer and put in too much.

    Just ask yourself if routine draining and replacing is something you want to do.

    POP - Pool Owner Patience.

    Have a good night!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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