Curious as to others thoughts on the plumbing? I know the builders reason behind reducing to 1.5" on the far returns. He says he needs to increase the velocity at the far returns. My understanding is that'll actually increase head and cause the pump to work harder. Thoughts? Does it really matter in this case?
New Pool Build Plumbing Diagram
- Thread starter bzeller
- Start date
You need to hav him go all the way around and connect it together , the return line should be a looped all the way around the pool for even pressure . that how my plumber did it
Ideally you want more things having their own pipe run back to the equipment pad, and 2" pipe through out (except larger for the spa as shown). Pipe is cheap, so it doesn't make that much sense to plumb a pool this way. That said, this kind of plumbing is fairly common, and it does work (if balanced correctly). It just that given the minimal extra costs it is clearly better to do it a more modern way.
You appear to have dual main drains connected to the left hand skimmer? If that is correct, that is more than worth changing. It is a huge advantage to have the main drain plumbed separately back to the equipment pad.
On the returns, it is very difficult to balance the returns when they are plumbed that way. It can be done that way, but usually they end up unbalanced. Since the return pipe already goes 3/4 of the way around, it seems worth running it the full way around into a loop as vinper suggested. That will automatically balance the returns with little effort and minimal additional cost. If looped, it should be 2" all the way around.
Using 1.5" in the line to the far returns as drawn isn't a great idea, though it does have some justification. The additional water velocity in the pipe doesn't help anything. You get your jet velocity by controlling the opening size on the return eyeball. The way in which it makes sense is that as you pass each return, the amount of water going through the pipe goes down, so you don't need as large a pipe. With careful choice of return eyeballs (with the ones closer to the pump having smaller openings) the system as drawn could work out. But I would never do mine that way.
The skimmers will also be unbalanced. Ideally they should each have their own run to the equipment pad and each have their own valve at the pad.
You appear to have dual main drains connected to the left hand skimmer? If that is correct, that is more than worth changing. It is a huge advantage to have the main drain plumbed separately back to the equipment pad.
On the returns, it is very difficult to balance the returns when they are plumbed that way. It can be done that way, but usually they end up unbalanced. Since the return pipe already goes 3/4 of the way around, it seems worth running it the full way around into a loop as vinper suggested. That will automatically balance the returns with little effort and minimal additional cost. If looped, it should be 2" all the way around.
Using 1.5" in the line to the far returns as drawn isn't a great idea, though it does have some justification. The additional water velocity in the pipe doesn't help anything. You get your jet velocity by controlling the opening size on the return eyeball. The way in which it makes sense is that as you pass each return, the amount of water going through the pipe goes down, so you don't need as large a pipe. With careful choice of return eyeballs (with the ones closer to the pump having smaller openings) the system as drawn could work out. But I would never do mine that way.
The skimmers will also be unbalanced. Ideally they should each have their own run to the equipment pad and each have their own valve at the pad.
vinper said:
I thought the same thing, but from I've read several different topic posts that's indicate its much more important to loop the returns on a spa than on the pool.
JasonLion said:
Can you give me an example of why? Just want to provide some justification when I ask him to change.
yes ,I agree seperate main drain , no flex pvc under pool . ran mine with 2.5" for less restriction on pump .
Having the main drain plumbed to the skimmer is next to useless. No water will be drawn from the drain unless both skimmer baskets are completely full. If you run the main drain back to the equipment pad, you can turn off the skimmers and use the main drain to drain the pool below the skimmers, something that is impossible as shown in the diagram.
Jason, in doing some research, I think most skimmer ports have two ports for the very reason of tying your main drain to the skimmer plumbing. They then have a valve system with a float that closes the skimmer port and diverts completely to the main drain if water drops below the tile line. I do agree that best practice would be to run individual lines from each skimmer and the drain so as to be able to manually control each in case of issues with one or even two lines.
Yes they all have 2 ports to allow for this, but it does not mean it is the best solution.
In fact, even if you do plumb the floor to the pad, you should ideally have an equilizer line plumbed to the 2nd port in the skimmer as a backup source of water if the level got too low.
The advantage of the separate lines is better flow control and the ability to only use the floor if you needed to drain the water below the skimmer line ... the floats diverters are not typically air tight.
In fact, even if you do plumb the floor to the pad, you should ideally have an equilizer line plumbed to the 2nd port in the skimmer as a backup source of water if the level got too low.
The advantage of the separate lines is better flow control and the ability to only use the floor if you needed to drain the water below the skimmer line ... the floats diverters are not typically air tight.
I confirmed with my builder that there are two suction lines back to the pad, one from each skimmer. He does have the main drain tied to the deep end skimmer. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to push to have the main drain plumbed separately.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,878
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
That's true. The longer the loop, the less you benefit from the loop. But when using small pipe, a loop is better than no loop. Although, you can also accomplish better balancing by just up sizing the pipe size. But downsizing the pipe to 1.5" for the far returns makes no sense at all as it will make the imbalance far worse.bzeller said:
$445 additional to bring a dedicated main drain line directly back to the pad. Worth it?
$280 to upgrade the return to 2.5" all the way through, not looped. I'm leaning a definite yes to this since it's about 160 ft of total pipe.
$280 to upgrade the return to 2.5" all the way through, not looped. I'm leaning a definite yes to this since it's about 160 ft of total pipe.
blakeusa
In The Industry
$445 seems kinda high for the price of pipe and work involved. It goes in the same ditch as the returns.
Yes you want the main drain separate. Also allows you to shut the main drain off if your using a vacuum.
And you reduce to eyeballs to get the flow you want to properly skim the water. 3/4 inch is common.
I also prefer screw in pool fittings VS press in - I use screw in plugs to winterize and for directional water flow eyes.
2" all the way around is good.
And the quality and power of the pump and routing at the pad effects flow- variable speed pumps are best as you can adjust the flow for your spa etc.
Yes you want the main drain separate. Also allows you to shut the main drain off if your using a vacuum.
And you reduce to eyeballs to get the flow you want to properly skim the water. 3/4 inch is common.
I also prefer screw in pool fittings VS press in - I use screw in plugs to winterize and for directional water flow eyes.
2" all the way around is good.
And the quality and power of the pump and routing at the pad effects flow- variable speed pumps are best as you can adjust the flow for your spa etc.
I thought so too and pointed out the same thing. The plumber charges $X/ft of pipe and that's what it comes out to be. I said do it, but under protest! ;-)
Bzeller, you are right. A smaller pipe will have a lower flow. The velocity will be higher but the flow will be lower. The flow is lower because there is more resistance in the smaller pipe. Go outside and try it with a nozzle on the end of the hose. The small jet won't have as much flow as the full open hose end (with the same spigot setting). May or may not matter. Is the final section on each run reduced to 1.5"? if so there may not be all that much difference in flow.
I have 2" coming from each skimmer and the main drain so that puts me at 3 2" suction back to the pad. I believe that equates to one 3.1" suction pipe feeding one 2.5" pipe which shouldn't be a problem!
I think it will be either or . Either skimmers or main drain not both ,mine go to a 3 way valve at pump . but 2.5 at pump is good.