Should I add Borax?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
langerking

langerking

0
Jul 12, 2013
104
Clermont, Florida (that's near Disney World)
FC - 2.0
CC - Not tested
pH - ?? It is less than 6.8
TA - 120
CH - 100 pool store measured 10 days ago
CYA - 100 pool store measured 10 days ago
Borates - have not used yet

I have been trying to balance my pool for about 10 days now. Just discovered this forum. I don't have the full test kit yet, will get one soon but I want to get opinions on whether I should add borax. I remember reading somewhere that it should be avoided, but it is also one of few ways to raise pH without affecting TA. The other method is aerating. I have constructed an aerator as described in these forums and have been aerating for about 25 hours.

When the pool store tested my TA was 0 and pH was 6.8 (probably a lot lower than that). Well water here is very acidic, I have to add pH up and TA increase regularly. The pool store guy told me to add 33 lbs of Baking Soda. I added 25 lbs (3 lbs at a time over a period of about 4 days) and saw that my TA was almost 100. I don't trust that pool guy, I went and bought some Soda Ash and added about 2 lbs. This did nothing (measurable) to help pH but increased the TA a little more. That's when I googled and found this forum. I started aerating but have not seen an increase in my pH. I added about a lb more of Soda Ash and I am continuing the aeration. I am guessing that the pH is creeping up but I can't measure it.

The water is very clear and feels softer than I can ever remember it being. The baking Soda didn't dissolve real well, I keep having to vacuum it up.
 
Borates are entirely optional. Using Borax to raise pH is a good idea.

But frankly, I wouldn't add ANYTHING based on pool store results. Read the first post in this thread, and pay attention to the chart almost at the end showing the erratic, inconsistent readings.

If they tested CYA at 100, it's almost certain it's higher than that. Have you been chlorinating with pucks or powders? Dichlor and Trichlor are both very acidic, and lower pH and TA dramatically while driving the CYA level up very quickly.

If - huge if - those results are accurate, you need to raise the FC level A LOT. Bare minimum your pool should maintain is 8 FC.

How soon until you get your test kit?
 
Richard320 said:
Borates are entirely optional. Using Borax to raise pH is a good idea.

But frankly, I wouldn't add ANYTHING based on pool store results. Read the first post in this thread, and pay attention to the chart almost at the end showing the erratic, inconsistent readings.

If they tested CYA at 100, it's almost certain it's higher than that. Have you been chlorinating with pucks or powders? Dichlor and Trichlor are both very acidic, and lower pH and TA dramatically while driving the CYA level up very quickly.

If - huge if - those results are accurate, you need to raise the FC level A LOT. Bare minimum your pool should maintain is 8 FC.

How soon until you get your test kit?
Click to expand...

I am chlorinating with trichlor pucks. I know, bad! But I wasn't enlightened until recently. Confused by your FC minimum. I am testing with a basic kit and test strips and both show the OK range is 1-3 ppm.
 
langerking said:
I am chlorinating with trichlor pucks. I know, bad! But I wasn't enlightened until recently. Confused by your FC minimum. I am testing with a basic kit and test strips and both show the OK range is 1-3 ppm.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't be confused. The FC/CYA relationship is discussed in Pool School. pool-school/pool_water_chemistry

Hey - if you want to maintain your pool according to the pool store's tests, recommendations, and methods, go for it! I wish I had that kind of money and patience.
 
Richard320 said:
langerking said:
I am chlorinating with trichlor pucks. I know, bad! But I wasn't enlightened until recently. Confused by your FC minimum. I am testing with a basic kit and test strips and both show the OK range is 1-3 ppm.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't be confused. The FC/CYA relationship is discussed in Pool School. pool-school/pool_water_chemistry

Hey - if you want to maintain your pool according to the pool store's tests, recommendations, and methods, go for it! I wish I had that kind of money and patience.
Click to expand...
It's not that, I do want to switch to BBB method.

I understand now, based on high CYA my FC needs to be higher. I don't think that my CYA is really as high as 100 (pool store measurement). The Aquachek test strips consistently measures it at about 20. Pool store guy said it is high, that is why you're measurement is so low :roll: .

There probably isn't much I can do until I get a real test kit. Thanks for your replies though!
 
langerking said:
There probably isn't much I can do until I get a real test kit. Thanks for your replies though!
Click to expand...

YOU"RE WRONG! :hammer:

You can spend your time relaxing and reading POOL SCHOOL. All of it! Twice! Or Three times!

You can familarize yourself with the Pool Calculator! http://www.poolcalculator.com/

You can stop adding pucks and start using liquid chlorine. You can use the pool calculator to determine how much to add. Without test accurate test results you are flying blind, but you can make sure to keep some chlorine in the pool.

Welcome! Glad you found us, it won't be long till you get your pool under control!
 
I understand your confusion. Been there done that. Get yourself the TF-100 test kit, and when you have all other chemicals in balance, go for the borax!! (In the meantime, yes, use Borax to raise your pH - but for the 50ppm Borax treament, wait til everything else is in balance.)
 
langerking said:
What equipment is missing from my sig?

I will switch to liguid immediately (as soon as I get to the store and buy some).

I just ordered a Taylor 2006 kit from Amato.

Do you think continued aeration will get my pH up? I promise to keep reading POOL SCHOOL.
Click to expand...


Whoops my bad, changed my post. I'm concerned that your PH could really be lower than 6.8 PPM. It's my understanding that readings below 6.8 may show as 6.8.

Here are some posts from mods i've copied pasted...

" The common PH test shows PH below 6.8 as 6.8. The aeration is no doubt bringing up the PH, but hasn't gotten it to 6.8 yet.

PH below 6.8 can damage your pool and equipment. I would bring the PH up to at least 6.9 with borax, and then continue with aeration. Aeration is slow, you don't want to wait that long with low PH."

"Adjusting the PH is a top priority.

Using tablets rapidly lowers the PH. Your PH is already too low. You should never allow PH to go below 7.2. PH below 7.0 can damage the pool, especially if the PH stays low for a long time or gets way below 7.2 for a shorter time."

So in summary, i would attempt to raise your PH as you are doing, using the pool cal you can figure out how much Borax to add to get to 6.9, and then keep areating. It may take a few doses to get to 6.9, if it really is say in the 5's....so you may need to do the process a few times.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
langerking said:
I just ordered a Taylor 2006 kit from Amato.
Click to expand...
It may take a week for you to get the kit. Amato does not ship quickly. If you had ordered either the TFTestkits TF-100 or the Taylor K-2006 from TFTestkits, you would have received the kit in probably a couple of days (3 at most). The TF-100 is more economical since it has a much higher volume of reagents you use the most (see Test Kits Compared). Anyway, too late now, but just wanted you to know there's a reason we make the recommendations that we do.
 
OK, sorry we didn't make clear that TFTestkits has faster service and great prices, even for the Taylor K-2006 (the TF-100 uses Taylor chemicals repackaged in more logical amounts, but is only available from TFTestkits). This forum is not a commercial site -- there are no ads and commercial selling is not allowed -- but the owner of the forum site also owns TFTestkits so there's a delicate dance to not over-promote. On the other hand, nothing beats the service from TFTestkits and Dave is committed to keep it that way so individual forum users (both mods and regular posters) recommending kits will often recommend the TF-100.
 
chem geek said:
OK, sorry we didn't make clear that TFTestkits has faster service and great prices, even for the Taylor K-2006 (the TF-100 uses Taylor chemicals repackaged in more logical amounts, but is only available from TFTestkits). This forum is not a commercial site -- there are no ads and commercial selling is not allowed -- but the owner of the forum site also owns TFTestkits so there's a delicate dance to not over-promote. On the other hand, nothing beats the service from TFTestkits and Dave is committed to keep it that way so individual forum users (both mods and regular posters) recommending kits will often recommend the TF-100.
Click to expand...


I second that.
 
harleysilo said:
Whoops my bad, changed my post. I'm concerned that your PH could really be lower than 6.8 PPM. It's my understanding that readings below 6.8 may show as 6.8.

Here are some posts from mods i've copied pasted...

" The common PH test shows PH below 6.8 as 6.8. The aeration is no doubt bringing up the PH, but hasn't gotten it to 6.8 yet.

PH below 6.8 can damage your pool and equipment. I would bring the PH up to at least 6.9 with borax, and then continue with aeration. Aeration is slow, you don't want to wait that long with low PH."

"Adjusting the PH is a top priority.

Using tablets rapidly lowers the PH. Your PH is already too low. You should never allow PH to go below 7.2. PH below 7.0 can damage the pool, especially if the PH stays low for a long time or gets way below 7.2 for a shorter time."

So in summary, i would attempt to raise your PH as you are doing, using the pool cal you can figure out how much Borax to add to get to 6.9, and then keep areating. It may take a few doses to get to 6.9, if it really is say in the 5's....so you may need to do the process a few times.
Click to expand...

I added a box of borax today and after a few hours I measured my pH at 7.2. Even if the accuracy of my test is poor, I can definitely see a significant color change so it's moving in the right direction.
 
Well it went a lot slower than I thought but the aeration did raise my pH to the desired level by this morning. I had the pump running for a good 60-65 hrs and used 1 76 oz box of Borax to help things along. My test kit will get here on Thurs and I will be able to make more reliable measurements then, but the pH is in the 7.6 range. T.A. looks to be at about 140. I am using liquid chlorine and increased the T.C to about 7.0 for now, I will adjust that accordingly when I have a more trustworthy measurement on my CYA.
I am a bit disappointed that the T.A. still rose despite all my efforts to increase only the pH. I am so glad I only put 25 lbs of the recommended 30 lbs of baking soda in before I started looking at things more closely and coming to this website and forum.
 
langerking said:
Test kit came in last night, measured this morning and here are the results:

FC - 9.0
CC - 0.5
pH - 7.4
TA - 90
CH - 130
CYA - ~200!! It is so high it is way off the scale. I only filled the tube to 0.6 inches and the 100 mark is at 1.2 inches

I am going to have to completely drain my pool to fix this.
Click to expand...
No, not all the way. But close.

1) The scale markings on that CYA tester are not equidistant. It's probably closer to 300. The way to know for sure is to dilute the pool water sample with an equal amount of tap water, then use that blend as the sample you test and double the reading. And if that's over 100, dilute it again.

2) With a vinyl liner you don't want to empty it 100%, or the liner my shift and wrinkle. You should leave a foot or so in the shallow end.

3) You might have to drain a bunch, refill, some, and drain again to get CYA down to a reasonable number.

4) With that test kit, the pool calculator, and this website, this should be the last time such dramatic measures are ever needed.
 
Richard320 said:
langerking said:
Test kit came in last night, measured this morning and here are the results:

FC - 9.0
CC - 0.5
pH - 7.4
TA - 90
CH - 130
CYA - ~200!! It is so high it is way off the scale. I only filled the tube to 0.6 inches and the 100 mark is at 1.2 inches

I am going to have to completely drain my pool to fix this.
Click to expand...
No, not all the way. But close.

1) The scale markings on that CYA tester are not equidistant. It's probably closer to 300. The way to know for sure is to dilute the pool water sample with an equal amount of tap water, then use that blend as the sample you test and double the reading. And if that's over 100, dilute it again.

2) With a vinyl liner you don't want to empty it 100%, or the liner my shift and wrinkle. You should leave a foot or so in the shallow end.

3) You might have to drain a bunch, refill, some, and drain again to get CYA down to a reasonable number.

4) With that test kit, the pool calculator, and this website, this should be the last time such dramatic measures are ever needed.
Click to expand...

"Drain my pool" was a meant kind of figuratively. We had an accidental draining a few years ago and it cost us that liner (it was an old one already). I understand the non-linearity of the scale. I am also seeing the foolishness of my ways by not buying the TF-100 from TFTestkits. After one CYA test my R-0013 reagent is down about 25%. I can do about 3 more tests. Guess I will be ordering replenishments soon.

I think I will take some corrective action before I remeasure the CYA. At any rate I know that it is very high. I'll start draining the pool down and refilling during the next week or so and then see where I am at. This is going to throw off everything though, my well water is acidic (<6.8) and I will be continuously re-balancing.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply