Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Helping out the neighbor with his pool chemistry... Update

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Helping out the neighbor with his pool chemistry... Update

    My neighbor has a in ground pool and is going to take a shot at doing the maintenance himself. I own the taylor 2006 test kit and I told him I would test his water. I own a in ground pool but it uses a SWG. My neighbors pool uses the pucks in the float.
    What kind of numbers should I be looking for? I have a good handle on the FC levels for SWG pools vs Manually dosed pools but what about the CYA, TA, CH for a manual dosed pool?
    Here is a breakdown of my neighbors pool to be tested.
    10,000 gal, Diamond brite, tricolor pucks in a float, Sunny South Florida pool temp at 91F, Long hot summer days.
    Thanks
    15k Diamond Brite, Aquarite SWG, 1.5hp StaRite, Hayward Star Clear 17502, AquaCal heat pump, Pentair Great White pool cleaner

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Well, your target numbers aren't really that different, but what you will see will be somewhat different.

    The main difference is that he is using stabilized chlorine (trichlor), so that constantly adds to his CYA. (He'd be better off using bleach.) His CYA shouldn't be much above 70 or so imo, although I've heard of people with 300+ who have used trichlor for years. Also, with a SWG, you generally have free chlorine=total chlorine. He won't have this. It's important to test for both free and combined chlorine (that's the third yellow capped reagent in the Taylor 2006 that you probably don't even bother to use with your SWG). If that gets high, he needs to shock to get rid of it.

    As for calcium hardness, that is determined by the pool type. For vinyl liners, it doesn't matter much as long as it doesn't get too high. For plaster, it needs to be high enough so that the water isn't sucking calcium out of the walls and floor.

    pH should be in the same range, 7.2-7.8, although trichlor users generally see it trend down, and SWG users generally see it trend up. The target range is no different though.

    Total alkalinity is also no different, although a lot of SWG users prefer slightly lower TA's in the 80ish range. I personally do too. Look on the last page of your taylor book and it will give you a correction to TA based on CYA. If his CYA is high, this is important, especially at low pH.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt
    Well, your target numbers aren't really that different, but what you will see will be somewhat different.

    The main difference is that he is using stabilized chlorine (trichlor), so that constantly adds to his CYA. (He'd be better off using bleach.) His CYA shouldn't be much above 70 or so imo, although I've heard of people with 300+ who have used trichlor for years. Also, with a SWG, you generally have free chlorine=total chlorine. He won't have this. It's important to test for both free and combined chlorine (that's the third yellow capped reagent in the Taylor 2006 that you probably don't even bother to use with your SWG). If that gets high, he needs to shock to get rid of it.
    Even a pool with a SWG should test for CC. It can and does happen!

    As for calcium hardness, that is determined by the pool type. For vinyl liners, it doesn't matter much as long as it doesn't get too high.
    Not quite right, calcium does matter, it just doesn't need to be as high in a vinyl pool. You want the water hard enough to keep it from foaming readily. Anything above 120 ppm should be fine.

    For plaster, it needs to be high enough so that the water isn't sucking calcium out of the walls and floor.
    part of the story but in general between 200-400 ppm is fine. For fiberglass you want between 175 - 350. This wil help prevent staining and cobalt spotting.
    pH should be in the same range, 7.2-7.8, although trichlor users generally see it trend down, and SWG users generally see it trend up. The target range is no different though.

    Total alkalinity is also no different,
    Plain wrong here. TA for unstabilized chlorine like bleach or a SWG should be 70-90 ppm. For stabilzied chlorine it should be higher 100-120 ppm. In either case your pH will be more stable if you keep it around 7.5-7.6 and not lower. Stabilized chlorine will deplete TA and make pH drop. Unstabilzied chlorine will generally have little impact on pH or it will rise slowly. SWGs will cause pH to rise because of the outgassing of CO2 from the hydrogen bubbles generated in the cell. With a SWG in particular you will have better pH stability by running the pH around 7.6 and not lower since CO2 outgasses faster at lower pH. (We use this to our advantage when we lower TA.)
    although a lot of SWG users prefer slightly lower TA's in the 80ish range. I personally do too. Look on the last page of your taylor book and it will give you a correction to TA based on CYA. If his CYA is high, this is important, especially at low pH.
    The TA correction for CYA can essentially be ignored with a maually chlorinated pool since the amount of correction is generally less than the precision of the test. For a salt pool it has a bit more impact but not noticably so. what it tends to do is cause people to raise the TA too high. The numbers I gave above for TA are uncorrected and assume normal ranges for CYA for the type of chlorination. The only time it really becomes an issue is with trichlor when the CYA level has risen very hgih (a situation that does not occur if you are keeping levels in recommened ranges.) In the event that the CYA is very high and is contributing to a majority of the measured CYA and because trichlor is extremely acidic and depletes TA you can get a situation where there actually is not enough carbonate alkalinity in the water and the pH takes a dangerously low nosedive. Howver, this is a rare occurance in a properly maintained pool and is usually only seen when someone does not have a grasp of what proper levels are and is not really testing them anyway.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Howver, this is a rare occurance in a properly maintained pool and is usually only seen when someone does not have a grasp of what proper levels are and is not really testing them anyway.
    Wow, you just described the last 2 months of the season before last, BEFORE i discovered TFP.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887
    The discussion of TA and CO2 outgassing has been moved to The Deep End in this thread.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Helping out the neighbor with his pool chemistry

    Ok Pool Gurus here are my neighbors test results using a taylor 2006 test kit.

    Stand back because I am shocked.
    After turning his pool green and staining the diamondbrite he went to the pool store two weeks ago and used.... I do not know what he used!!!...
    He did not have the empty bottles and the only product he had left was clarifier.
    Today the pool walls are white, and the algae is gone. The water is clear, not crystal clear but ok if your were showing the home to guest. No smell or any other issues.

    Here are the facts on the pool.....

    10,000 gal, DiamondBrite in ground pool.
    Manual dosed pool, (He uses pucks in a floater and has a 5 gallon bucket in his shed. I told him to stop using those even before I tested the pool).
    Small, very small jacuzzi brand filter. (Figure on minimal filtration).
    He, we have well water for our water source. My neighbor has a water softener for his home but I cannot place any trust or confidence on the quality, (metals, softness, hardness) of his water.

    Pool water chemistry (taylor 2006)

    FC 13.00
    CC 0.0
    ph 7.2
    TA 190
    CH 800-850 (tested twice)
    Cya ?? (using the taylor 2006 test kit the water was only about 0.5 inches high before the black dot disappeared. I tested it twice and I used a strip as well. I know the evil strip test, but the test strip maxed out at 300+

    Ok this is what I want to do.

    1. Stop using the stabalized pucks. Use pool chlorine, not house bleach because my cya is so high I have to keep my FC up high.

    [list=2:cz0jv9us]Start dosing the pool with Polyquat 60 as a maintenance dose. I don't want this pool to turn green and get the look from the neighbor[/list:cz0jv9us]
    [list=3:cz0jv9us]Drain the pool partially (lower the cya and CH) and pray for rain[/list:cz0jv9us]
    [list=4:cz0jv9us]Go to the local pool store and tell them my intentions on refilling the pool with a mediacore water softner and ask for a metal sequestriant.[/list:cz0jv9us]

    Where do we start?
    15k Diamond Brite, Aquarite SWG, 1.5hp StaRite, Hayward Star Clear 17502, AquaCal heat pump, Pentair Great White pool cleaner

  7. Back To Top    #7
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Helping out the neighbor with his pool chemistry... Update

    Sounds like someone's been dosing with Cal-Hypo for shock....that would explain the hardness reading.

    CYA of 300+? Hmmmm. If that's accurate I'm not surprised but holy smokes, that's gonna be alotta water to be replaced and your gonna have a tough time convincing him of that. the hardness number will require a refill anyway, I'm pretty sure....

    Hope one of the guru's comes along shortly, I'm gonna be following this one....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  8. Back To Top    #8

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,401

    Re: Helping out the neighbor with his pool chemistry... Update

    One of the most troublesome threads on the forum is an attempt to help someone who will not come on to the forum to ask for help.

    If your neighbor is not interested enough to learn, he will switch back to his old ways as soon as you're out of the picture.

    I know I sound like a grinch but statistics bear me out......No good deed goes unpunished!
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Helping out the neighbor with his pool chemistry... Update

    Lots and lots of water replacement, if they will listen.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •