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Thread: Newb TF-100 results!!

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    Newb TF-100 results!!

    Parameters:

    -In ground pool lined with small pebbled stone along bottom and walls
    -Irregular oval shape(width=12ft, length=18ft, depth=5ft) approx. 8,000 gallon
    -Hayward de4800 micro-clear filter
    -Full sun all day in Phoenix, AZ

    FC...2
    CC...1
    TC...3
    pH...7.2-7.4
    T/A...140
    CH...> 460
    CYA...80

    Pool was just recovered from a green mess (by pool company) about 10 days ago. Water is perfectly clear and blue now.
    In certain spots along the wall, small hard white bumps have formed. I presume due to the high CH????

    Any advice would be great as to chemicals to buy, and what to adjust first.

    TIA!!!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    You need to maintain a much higher level of chlorine with that high CYA (unless you have a SWCG). 6ppm should be your minimum FC level. Since your CH and CYA are both high already, you can't use anything but liquid shock or bleach to chlorinate without making your problems worse. You really need to replace your water with something with less calcium. Do you know what calcium hardness your fill water has?
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  3. Back To Top    #3
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Hi p88,

    The first thing you need is bleach (liquid chlorine). You can use the plain unscented 6% bleach from WallyWorld or the grocery store or you can buy the 10 or 12% liquid chlorine from the pool store.

    You need to shock your pool to get rid of CC and maintain a much higher FC level with your CYA of 80. Although outside normal non-SWG ranges, your CYA of 80 may be a good level for your pool based on your location and being in full sun. Use Jason's Pool Calculator (link in my sig) to determine the shock level and maintenance level FC.

    Your TA & CH need some work, but get the bleach in there to rid the pool of CC first.

    Here are some stickies to read for now that shoud help:

    "ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" by duraleigh: http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=4953

    "BBB" or, "What are all these pool chemicals?" by Waterbear: http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=94

    I am including this one because it explains in detail how to shock your pool:
    "Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis" by JasonLion: http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=4147

    When you get time, please list all your pool and equipment info in your signature. This will help members give more accurate comments.

    What kind of test kit are you using?

    Post back any questions you have. Welcome to the forum

    ETA: hey JohnT, we posted at exactly the same time great minds.........
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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  4. Back To Top    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jjparrish
    Hi p88,

    The first thing you need is bleach (liquid chlorine). You can use the plain unscented 6% bleach from WallyWorld or the grocery store or you can buy the 10 or 12% liquid chlorine from the pool store.

    You need to shock your pool to get rid of CC and maintain a much higher FC level with your CYA of 80. Although outside normal non-SWG ranges, your CYA of 80 may be a good level for your pool based on your location and being in full sun. Use Jason's Pool Calculator (link in my sig) to determine the shock level and maintenance level FC.

    Your TA & CH need some work, but get the bleach in there to rid the pool of CC first.

    Here are some stickies to read for now that shoud help:

    "ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" by duraleigh: http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=4953

    "BBB" or, "What are all these pool chemicals?" by Waterbear: http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=94

    I am including this one because it explains in detail how to shock your pool:
    "Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis" by JasonLion: http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=4147

    When you get time, please list all your pool and equipment info in your signature. This will help members give more accurate comments.

    What kind of test kit are you using?

    Post back any questions you have. Welcome to the forum

    ETA: hey JohnT, we posted at exactly the same time great minds.........
    OK, first off, thanks for the replies!!
    I am using the TF-100 test kit that I ordered from this site.

    In testing FC/CC, I get 10mL sample then add the powder-->turns pink. Then start to drop in the 0871 solution and swirl. I got to 2 drops and the water turned clear...does this mean the FC now = 1???

    Then added 5 drops of 0003 solution and it turned bright pink. Again, added 0871 until it turned clear. It took 5 crops until it was clear. This means that CC = 2.5??

    If:
    FC=1
    CC=2.5

    Then:
    I should bring FC up to shock level? If so, according to the pool calc. for an 8k gallon pool, when CYA=80 shock is 21. So, I have to add approx. 332oz of 6% bleech?

    I should also add that I have a floating feeder that contains a 1/2 lb chlorinating tablet. On the box of chl 'pucks' it says 'available chlorine: 85%).

    Just looking for a bit of clarification.

    About the CH level...I tested the house tap water (assuming it is the same water that fills the pool) and the CH level is 260.

    TIA for replies!

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    p88,

    Your calcs all look good.

    You need to stop using the pucks immediately.

    Your CYA is at the upper limit of reasonable (maybe beyond that 40-60ppm would be better) and the pucks are just making it go higher and higher.

    A Partial drain and refill is your only practical option. It'll help that high CH as well.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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  6. Back To Top    #6
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Yes, you should shock the pool. That means bring the FC level up to 20 and holding it there by testing and adding more chlorine frequently until CC is zero.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7
    perhaps a dumb question...but I haven't been able to find an answer:

    Can we swim in the pool while FC is at shock level?

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    No..... Your eyes won't like it.
    Hotrod30

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    Can we swim in the pool while FC is at shock level?
    Opinions vary. my opinion is it's fine provided that your CC's test less than .5 or less.

    Burning eyes is more a function of CC's and/or contaminates in the water rather than higher levels of FC.

    Likewise, I am personally becoming convinced that fading swimsuits in outdoor pools with even just a little CYA is an urban myth. If folks on this forum have swum in an outdoor pool (with CYA) and had a faded swimsuit, it'd be great for you to post that info here.
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  10. Back To Top    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Likewise, I am personally becoming convinced that fading swimsuits in outdoor pools with even just a little CYA is an urban myth. If folks on this forum have swum in an outdoor pool (with CYA) and had a faded swimsuit, it'd be great for you to post that info here.
    It's never nappened to me but It has happened when I've swam in indoor pools that I assume have not had CYA in the water (they were commecial).

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Well, if chlorine levels are high enough, even with CYA acid in the pool, there will be a lot of free chlorine anyways (not associated with a CYA molecule). That being said, in general, CYA will reduce the amount of free chlorine floating around at any given time, so I would expect it would slow down bleaching rates on fabrics.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Trying to bring to shock level of 21 according to pool calc.

    So far, I started with 332 oz of 6% bleach, waited 1/2 hr and tested FC=6, (gain of 5).

    So, put an additional 249 oz of 6% bleach, waited 1/2 hr. and FC=7.

    Could this be correct?? Seems like the second go around should have brought it up more??

    8K gallon pool, with pebbled sides, clear water.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    It's possible. I'd double check the test to be sure.

    Several possibilities include:

    1) older bleach, it loses strength as it sits around, especially the higher concentration stuff

    2) there is something organic consuming the bleach as you add it. high chlorine demand often means something that needs to be killed

    3) loss to light (seems like this alone wouldn't explain it in 30 mins)

    4) bad test results, either the first or second time

    In theory, 1 gallon of 6% bleach should bring 8000 gallons of water up 7.7 ppm free chlorine. Thus, 332 oz should, in theory, bring you up 332/128 * 7.7 = 20.0 ppm. 249 oz should, in theory, bring you up 249/128 * 7.7 = 15 ppm.

    So yes, I'm surprised you're not higher, but if there is a lot of organic matter in the pool, it could definitely be eating that bleach as fast as you add it. When chlorine begins to remain constant, then you've probably killed anything that was in the pool.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt
    It's possible. I'd double check the test to be sure.

    Several possibilities include:

    1) older bleach, it loses strength as it sits around, especially the higher concentration stuff

    2) there is something organic consuming the bleach as you add it. high chlorine demand often means something that needs to be killed

    3) loss to light (seems like this alone wouldn't explain it in 30 mins)

    4) bad test results, either the first or second time

    In theory, 1 gallon of 6% bleach should bring 8000 gallons of water up 7.7 ppm free chlorine. Thus, 332 oz should, in theory, bring you up 332/128 * 7.7 = 20.0 ppm. 249 oz should, in theory, bring you up 249/128 * 7.7 = 15 ppm.

    So yes, I'm surprised you're not higher, but if there is a lot of organic matter in the pool, it could definitely be eating that bleach as fast as you add it. When chlorine begins to remain constant, then you've probably killed anything that was in the pool.
    Should the pump be running when adding bleach so that the return flow distributes it??

    Q. regarding the TF-100 test:
    AFter adding the powder water turns bright pink. Then add 1 drop of 0871 solution at a time, stopping to swirl. AS SOON as it turns clear, multiply # drops by .5=FC ppm. Well, after letting it sit awhile, it turns back to slight pink, is this normal??

  15. Back To Top    #15
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    You want the pump running during and for at least an hour after adding bleach (and most other chemicals as well).

    The FAS-DPD test will turn back to pink if you let it sit for a couple of minutes. That is normal, just ignore it.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Newb TF-100 results!!

    well, i FINALLY got the FC up to about 20ppm last night, and this morning it was at 10ppm. So, I added in another 174oz of 6% bleach, waited an hour (w/ pump running) and tested...Back up to 20 and CC is .5 or less, (probably 0).

    Is is safe to assume that I am done shocking the pool??

    In total, last night and this morning, I added roughly 1090 oz of 6% bleach. My CYA level is 80-90 and the pool size is 8300 gallon!!!

    Why did it take soooooo much bleach?? b/c of high CYA level??

    To combat the high CYA, I'm going to backwash every week, taking it down 1'' at a time.

    Am I on the right track??

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Newb TF-100 results!!

    If you want to lower the CYA that slowly then yes, you are on the right track. Just remember it takes more chlorine with the higher CYA, which you seem to understand.

    You are done when your FC holds overnight. You had a 10ppm drop, so no, I'd say your not quite done. Check it tonight after dark, and then again first thing in the morning. If it drops more than 1ppm you still have something consuming the chlorine, and you'll need to keep shocking.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Newb TF-100 results!!

    You need to continue shocking until you can hold your FC overnight.

    Ooo, I like that new 'post review' feature!

    What PoolMom said!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Newb TF-100 results!!

    I raised FC to over 20ppm for 3 consecutive nights and the last day, the FC dropped by only 3, but then again, the sun was up for roughly 2 hours b4 I got around to testing the final morning.

    So, I think its safe to say I'm done shocking? I also tested the CC and it appears to be 0.

    In total, I dont' know how much bleach I used, but I would guess, well over 2000 oz's!!!!!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Newb TF-100 results!!

    CC of 0 is a good sign...but the 3ppm drop overnight, is alot, even with the sun being out for 2 hours... you do have high CYA so it doesn't make sense that you would lose that much to UV exposure in 2 hours. Was the sun just "up" or was it "high in the sky" giving direct rays on your pool? was a solar cover or cover on your pool? Anyone swimming during that time? Any evidence of pollen or other organics in the water?

    Be sure not to let your chlorine drop below "target" levels until you are sure you are "in the clear"....

    Get to lowering that CYA so you can save some dough.....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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