Autopilot Digital Electrical Setup - HELP!!!

[nupoolsoon]

My electrician is calling it a day right now. He has spent 3 hours trying to set up the Autopilot and where he is leaving it right now is manual override.

They were on the phone with an Autopilot technician who was telling him various ways to hook up the control panel. My husband was there to witness the confusion on the techs part. Well, at 5:30 they were "disconnected" and the tech did not call back. The tech had called our home# so that they could all be on speaker phone together. This included the electrician, the pb's plumber and my husband. I guess it was Yabb-Dabba-Doo time on a Friday!! What kind of tech service is that???

All I can tell you is that we have a Whisperflo dual speed pump, which may be the only glitch.

Can anyone assist us here? I do not even know if this electrician will come back to the job he is so fed up!!

 

[Titanium]

nupoolsoon,

Sorry to hear about your technical difficulties.

Can you give any details as to what the problem is? Your post was very non-specific on details.

Titanium

 

[Poolsean]

Nupoolsoon,

If you want, I can be available tomorrow (Saturday).
As Titanium said though, your post is very unspecific as to what the problems are.

Please PM me.

 

[nupoolsoon]

Since the electrician high-tailed it out of here, the plumber told me it seems to be an issue with the lack of specifics on the diagram for the field wiring for a two speed pump.

The AP technician also told the electrician we cannot have a separate intermatic time clock to control on/off of the pump. I know the AP control panel can be set to control the speeds, but I wil need something to turn the pump on/off while we are on vacation.

PoolSean - I will pm you, but the electrician is not planning on coming back now until Monday.

 

[Titanium]

nupoolsoon,

issue with the lack of specifics on the diagram for the field wiring for a two speed pump.

I will defer to PoolSean here, but I would think that the electrical wiring for a two speed pump should be routine. And I'm really confused why anyone would have been talking about "a separate Intermatic time clock" - I would think one would not be needed for this application.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the eventual problem and resolution ends up being.

Titanium

 

[nupoolsoon]

Believe you, me...I can't figure out what the issue is either. I had done extensive research on the main brands of SWG's and choose the Autopilot b/c of its sophistication, yet simplicity of install. I have read people doing it as a DIY install in one hour.

The electrician was popping breakers on the sub panel to our house panel which then leads to the pool panel. My husband swore he must have gotten some volts. I hope not!!!

My main concern is what the tech had told the electrician and how many wires the tech had the electrician move.

Last ?, what is the factory preset on the panel?

Sean - I will pm you in the morning. I am headed to bed after a nice glass of wine that is long overdue today.

 

[Titanium]

nupoolsoon,

The electrician was popping breakers on the sub panel to our house panel which then leads to the pool panel.

This indicates something far more serious than some wrong settings on the panel. My guess is that your electrician is not up to speed on some basic concepts.

My husband swore he must have gotten some volts.

This only reinforces my earlier contention that your electrician is deficient in basic electricity. There is no reason for him to have gotten shocked if he has taken proper precautions. Often, electrical troubleshooting will require taking volt and amp readings will the panel is electrically energized. With the proper equipment and procedures there still is no reason to get shocked during troubleshooting on a live electrical panel.

Now you've got me intrigued.

Titanium

 

[Poolsean]

The Pool Pilot Digital, in two speed mode, does not have an OFF position and defaults to low speed, with the programmed times controlling the high speed.

The Intermatic time clock will control the on/off of the system, and the Digital will control the High speed/Low speed of the pump.

http://autopilot.com/downloads/man-pool ... tal_42.pdf is the owners manual. Go to page 5.

On the Pool Pilot terminal strip, if you number it from 1 to 6, left to right, your main power wires coming in (220 volts) from the LOAD side of the time clock will connect to terminals 3 and 4, and the ground lug.
There should be a jumper from 3 to 1, and from 4 to 2.
The two speed pump will have 4 wires, high speed, low speed, common, and ground.
The owners manual describes what to do with the wires onto the relay and terminal strip, and how to control the two speed pump.

Do not disconnect any of the factory wired connectors other than these below. The attachment is what it should look like when you're done.

1) Remove the wire off the Relay that is connected to Terminal 4, and cut in half, stripping the end so you can connect it to Terminal 6.
2) Remove the wire from Terminal 6 and off the relay.
3) Connect the Terminal 6 wire onto the Relay, top right position.
4) Insert and tighten the wire from Terminal 4 to Terminal 6.
5) Connect the Pump COMMON to Terminal 6.
6) Connect the Pump HIGH SPEED to Terminal 5.
7) Connect the Pump LOW SPEED to the wire connected to the Relay top right position.
8) Connect the ground wire to the ground lug.

Programming:
1) Press MENU, arrow up or down to INSTALLER MENU.
2) Press and hold the SELECT button for approx 13 seconds. When INSTALLER MENU switches from the bottom row to the top row, release the SELECT button. If it goes back to the normal display before it 13 seconds, redo this step.
3) Arrow through the menu selections and answer the questions.
4) When you get to SELECT SYSTEM (may also read SET RELAY or PUMP CONTROL), go to TWO SPEED PUMP.
5) Then you can program one or both PUMP PROGRAM (1, 2) modes to cycle the high speed times.

Hope this helps.

 

[Titanium]

My apologies to the electrician - sort of. He still shouldn't have gotten shocked.

But the wiring diagram from page 5 of the instruction manual for 2-speed pumps is seriously deficient. It still took me awhile - even with Poolsean's new diagram - to realize that the text in the manual for 2-speed operation was essentially correct. But there is no way that I would have been comfortable following just the text directions in the manual without the help of Poolsean's additional circuit diagram.

This manual should be modified to show a real circuit diagram in addtition to the "diagrams" showing just terminal strips and wires.

Titanium

 

[JasonLion]

The big problem here is that there are quite a few different ways to set up the AutoPilot with a two speed pump, each with it's own set of implications. The manual doesn't even hint at the fact that there is more than one way to do it, let alone explore the tradeoffs of the various approaches.

There is no one setup that is ideal for everyone. Some people want the AutoPilot to turn the pump on and off and adjust the speed with a manual switch. Some want to AutoPilot control the speed and turn the pump on and off with either a manual switch or a timer. Sometimes there is an automation system, which brings in several more possibilities.

 

[Titanium]

Jason,

The big problem here is that there are quite a few different ways to set up the AutoPilot with a two speed pump, each with it's own set of implications. The manual doesn't even hint at the fact that there is more than one way to do it, let alone explore the tradeoffs of the various approaches.

I agree. This is why AutoPilot should have used a real circuit diagram. With a real circuit diagram, most electricians would be able to figure out how to connect in a manual switch or timer. With the kind of "diagram" that AutoPilot used, there isn't an easy way of understanding how the AutoPilot factory wiring is supposed to work.

Instead, using the existing "documentation", an electrician would be forced to "reverse engineer" (i.e. wire trace the factory wiring) in order to understand how AutoPilot intended the standard operations to work. Once the electrician has "reverse engineered" the wiring (which wouldn't be necessary if AutoPilot had used industry standard circuit diagrams), he would understand how everything was supposed to work "normally" and he would fairly easily be able to modify the wiring to work with external switches and timers.

I'm just saying that I have worked with a lot of electrical diagrams over the years. And AutoPilot's diagrams from the manual are easily in the bottom 10%.

Poolsean - I'm sorry if I seem to be dumping on AutoPilot. This really wasn't my intent. Rather I hope my comments spur the AutoPilot technical document writers to do a better job. And it would make your job easier (not having to provide wiring advice that should have been covered better in the manual). It is just that something is wrong when an electrical engineer has trouble understanding the existing installation manual.

Titanium

 

[Strannik]

Not to spark a debate, but I'm curious what constitutes an "industry standard wiring diagram"? Which industry are we talking about here?

 

[Titanium]

strannik,

Good question. What I meant to convey was there are often two different types of electrical diagrams. Each of the two types of electrical diagrams show the same equipment, but in different formats and for different purposes.

1. Wiring diagram - also known as a "connection diagram", this typically shows how things are physically laid out and how wires are run. Terminal strips are shown much as they are in real life - i.e. terminal one is next to terminal 2 in next to terminal 3. This kind of diagram is useful for field work in that the various wires and terminals strips are relatively easy to find and identify. Very handy to have for initial installation by the electrician.

2. Schematic diagram - this is also sometimes referred to as an "elementary diagram". This sort of electrical diagram doesn't make much attempt to show the physical layout of the terminal strips and wires. Rather the emphasis is on a simplified layout which makes the logic and function of the electrical circuit easily apparent. This diagram can be especially useful during troubleshooting.

A very good example of how both types of electrical diagrams are used by pool equipment manufacturers is the following instruction manual for a Jandy heater. See document page 18 (pdf page 20). http://www.jandy-downloads.com/pdfs/H02 ... Heater.pdf

See how there is no guessing of how the equipment is supposed to function? Any slight variations in field installation is relatively straightforward by the electrician. Imagine how difficult this task would be if Jandy had only shown a fraction of the diagram in section a) and didn't bother to include the diagram in section b) at all. The poor electrician would be forced to trace wire over wire and come up with the complete section a) diagram from scratch. Even then the purpose and function of the circuit might not be evident until the electrician redraws the section a) circuit in the section b) format

Even mundane household items such as dishwashers, dryers, refrigerators will often show the two different type of electrical diagrams in the owners manual (or at least glued on a back panel somewhere). If these kind of household appliances can show the two kinds of electrical schematic, as does Jandy, then we should expect it of PoolPilot also.

Titanium

 

[Strannik]

So you are referring to electrical industry standards, not the pool industry? Just wanted to clear that up, cause your post made me think that there might be some pool industry standards for electrical diagrams in US. Yeah i agree with you, it's hard to troubleshoot wiring without proper diagram.

 

[Poolsean]

Titanium - understood. See what I can do.

 

[nupoolsoon]

Thanks Sean for the diagram. It seems MUCH easier to follow than what is in the book. I have printed it out and will give it to the electrician. I will keep you posted.

 

[nupoolsoon]

Autopilot SWG (? for PoolSean)

Not to single you out PoolSean, but...

If you remember about 4-6 weeks ago, (moved post into the thread with the original discussion. JasonLion), we had an electrican that gave up on our install of the 2sp pump and our Autopilot SWG. You had provided the new wiring diagram, which he did use. We were not sure though, even with your good diagram, that it is connected properly b/c we still cannot get the low/high speed to work through the SWG panel. We have been operating on HIGH since the install was finished...afraid to see this month's electric bill which should be arriving any day now.

We are having an electrician come tomorrow to install a timer and see if he can get the low/high speed pump to work on the Autopilot SWG. He did take about 1 hour of his time on Saturday and although he said the SWG seems to be connected properly from your diagram, he is not sure why the low/high is not working. He is thinking the relay might be blown(?). Does Autopilot sell this part individually and would this be covered under warranty?

I am wondering though since we have the electrician installing the PE1353 which has 3 circuits and can operate the low and high, how we should really have the SWG connected. How do you suggest we connect the timer and the SWG?

I have to ask this because you had once offered your assistance by cell phone to our electrician, but he never even came back. We are having another electrician come tomorrow (Wednesday) around 4pm EST and was wondering if you would be so kind (if possibly available) to offer your assistance again. If not, I am sure he will be able to figure it out, provided it is not the relay he is speaking of.

You can pm me if needed.

Thx.

~Donna

 

[Poolsean]

Donna,
I will be driving from Ft Lauderdale to Sarasota tomorrow morning. My last meeting should be done by about 3:30 pm.
If you want to call me around 4 pm, that should be fine. I'll probably be driving over to Orlando by then so I'll alot of drive time to speak with your electrician.

Yes, the relay is available. If it turns out to be the relay, I'll get it changed under warranty.

What does the display show when you press the PUMP button?
Do you have the Pump Program 1 programmed for the high speed on and off?

 

[nupoolsoon]

PoolSean,

When I press the pump button, it will display either high or low with the arrow either up or down. When you press the arrow button, you can hear something click, but nothing electrical changes.

I know when the new electrician was looking at it, he said it seemed the old guy bypassed circuit #5, but he said how he did it looked fine.

Pump Program#1 for high speed on/off??? I do not know the answer that. I do know it is set up with the last diagram you had provided, which I think the link can be found in one of the above posts.

I will have the electrician call you this afternoon. Thank you for offering to help.

~Donna

 

[garrard]

As an interested bystander in this discussion, let me add that I agree that the Autopilot manual needs a serious update on 2-speed pump installation! I have a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering, and when it comes down to the basics, even electrical stuff is more mechanical than electrical (wire A goes to terminal B, etc...). But I was so confused by the manual for my Autopilot SWG that I gave up and installed it using the one speed pump directions. I control the pump speed by setting the pump switch to either high or low. There simply wasn't enough information in the manual on what happens at the relay. I didn't trust my ability to "guess" what needed to be done - I am smart enough to know that when the electrical stuff takes over the mechanical stuff, smoke can follow in sort order!

All that said, I would not trade my Autopilot for anything! My pool water has not looked this good since, well, never. My chlorine stays a constant 3-4 ppm, and all I see on the bottom of the pool is dirt and dead bugs. I swear I could read the newspaper on the other side of the pool it's so clear! Don't let this discussion keep you away from a really great product!

Doug