Timer wiring questions

[rickmnj]

Hi again all:

I've made some good progress with the relocation of my pool equipment and have a couple questions regarding the timers and wiring.

I'm guessing these timers are quite a few years old and seem to be similar to the current offerings from Intermatic. These timers have always functioned properly.

The conduit from the sub panel in my basement contains 7 wires. These wires are visible in a junction box that the two timers are attached to. (Picture 1)

Most of these 7 wires PASS THROUGH (meaning they are not cut) to a "Deck" box (approx 10 feet away) to power a Niche light, Spa Aerator, Convenience outlet and Spa light.

I believe the only two lines which utilize a GFCI breaker are for the Pool and Spa Niche light.

Two of the 7 wires branch off to feed Timer 1 (Pool Pump*). These two wires were stripped "inline", wrapped around the "Line in" posts and continued on to supply power to Timer 2 (Pool Cleaner Pump). *Timer 1 used to control a heater, which is no longer exists.

My question is that there is no ground wire present and it appears the timers may not be equipped to accommodate a ground. I can't find an exact match for either timer regarding documentation. (Can anyone identify?)

One of the wires that passes through to the Deck box is a ground wire...but as mentioned, it's uncut. Can I cut and run a leg off of it to these timers?

I've attached pics for clarification.

Thanks in advance!


[attachment=0:4b42vg6x]Junction Box to Timers and Deck Box.jpg[/attachment:4b42vg6x]

[attachment=2:4b42vg6x]Timer 1.jpg[/attachment:4b42vg6x]

[attachment=1:4b42vg6x]Timer 2.jpg[/attachment:4b42vg6x]

 

[JasonLion]

Yes, running ground over to the timer, and on from there to the equipment the timer controls, is a great idea.

You can cut the wire and use a wire nut to connect the two ends and a new wire together. Things will be a little tight, but it looks like you have enough slack to fit that in.

Ground wires have been required for a long time. Your setup looks fairly old, but hard to believe it is really old enough to predate ground wires.

 

[rickmnj]

Jason, I agree. The lack of ground wires is very surprising as other work is pretty well done.
Is there a reason some of the wires are stripped inline and continue to their next component? I read something regarding lines have to be "direct from panel". Is this the reason why? Or am I reading into the meaning too much?

Also, is GFCI a requirement for components other than the niche lights?

For instance my convenience outlet (not GFCI protected) is about two feet from the edge of the pool. I believe the new code is it needs to be between 10 and 20 feet from the edge. Can you comment?

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[jblizzle]

Actually the code is any outlet outside should be GFCI protected, whether you have a pool or not.

And I am sure it should not only be 2 feet from the pool.

 

[JasonLion]

Code says no outlets within 10 feet of the water, and there must be an outlet somewhere that is between 10 and 15 feet from the water. The most recent version of code requires everything anywhere near the pool be CGFI, but the slightly older version, which is still in use most places, says all outlets must be CGFI but hardwired equipment doesn't have to be.

 

[rickmnj]

The outlet is original to the pool design. The conduit comes out of the brickwork and supports the outlet box. I'm going to remove and relocate to approximately 10' from pools edge.

If I may....
- Should the convenience outlet circuit originate at a GFCI breaker of can I utilize a GFCI equipped outlet?
- Regarding the pumps, I read that in some instances GFCI breakers would kick off when used with timers. Has anyone experienced this?

Thanks again.