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Thread: safe to swim now?? a couple things worry me

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    safe to swim now?? a couple things worry me

    I took the same water sample to 2 different places to get tested since at the moment I am strapped for money and can't order my own test kit, here are the results:

    Pinch A Penny
    Total Chlorine *
    Free Chlorine 3.0 ppm
    ph 7.8
    total alkalinity 195ppm
    calcium hard 125ppm
    stabilizer 40ppm
    total dissolved solids 1800ppm

    Ace Hardware
    CYA 64
    Toal chlorine .9
    Free chlorine .9
    ph 7.8
    total alk 154
    adj total alk 135
    total hard 189

    I added stabilizer yesterday/last night, and 2.5 gal of chlroine either yesterday or the day before, but I think yesterday.The guy at ACE said the ph is a little high but it should be fine to swim in.

    Now the other problem I'm having are "stains" well in some areas they appear as stains but in others, it seems like it is "built" up more and is kind of gritty. I took some pictures to show you what I mean, I tried both the calcium and trichlor sock test on this first picture of the top step and it didnt really help

    these are the "stains"
    http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/...2/100_0297.JPG
    the grittier parts built up in the pool
    http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/...2/100_0298.JPG
    just the deep end, if you look lower left, you can see the white main drain, A HUGE improvement from the 1ft i could see b4
    http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/...2/100_0300.JPG
    the grittiness is also on the ladder under water
    http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/...2/100_0301.JPG

    I would also like to sincerely thank everyone on these forums for their help getting my pool this far and would love to get my pool past that last step
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

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    tagprod's Avatar
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    do you have a SWG?

    I'm assuming that's a gunite pool. The TA needs to come down and so does the PH. Have you crushed vitamin c tablets and tried to rub those on the stains? could be metal staining. Give me some info and I'll try to help.
    Brian
    20K IG Gunite w/ raised 7ft spillover spa. 1.5 HP Hayward Northstar pump 425 sq ft Hayward cartridge filter, Colorlogic lights AquaRite SWG AquaLogic PS-8 control
    1hp pump for sheer descent

  3. Back To Top    #3
    ya, it is a gunite, and is a SWG the thing you put chlorine tablets in? If so then yes we do
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

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    tagprod's Avatar
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    no a SWG uses salt to make chlorine. You should aim for 30-50 CYA. but if you're at 60 I'd leave it for now. Keep a close eye on your PH. Do you have a spiillover spa? If so it will help drive the PH up. You want to get it to 7.2 and add more acid as soon as it comes up to 7.5. This way you drive the TA down and it won't rise as fast as the PH does.
    Brian
    20K IG Gunite w/ raised 7ft spillover spa. 1.5 HP Hayward Northstar pump 425 sq ft Hayward cartridge filter, Colorlogic lights AquaRite SWG AquaLogic PS-8 control
    1hp pump for sheer descent

  5. Back To Top    #5
    no we dont use salt water at all, we use liquid chlorine. and yes we do have a spill over spa, how long after adding the muriatic acid can you swim in the pool? Thanks
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

  6. Back To Top    #6
    tagprod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by android6011
    no we dont use salt water at all, we use liquid chlorine. and yes we do have a spill over spa, how long after adding the muriatic acid can you swim in the pool? Thanks
    5 minutes.
    Brian
    20K IG Gunite w/ raised 7ft spillover spa. 1.5 HP Hayward Northstar pump 425 sq ft Hayward cartridge filter, Colorlogic lights AquaRite SWG AquaLogic PS-8 control
    1hp pump for sheer descent

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    so what abotu the stain like things, what should i do about those? that is my main concern at this point in time
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    That looks rather like calcium scaling, though it is difficult to tell for sure from the pictures.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tagprod
    Quote Originally Posted by android6011
    no we dont use salt water at all, we use liquid chlorine. and yes we do have a spill over spa, how long after adding the muriatic acid can you swim in the pool? Thanks
    5 minutes.
    5 minutes, wow that could be dangerous

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    That looks rather like calcium scaling, though it is difficult to tell for sure from the pictures.
    if it is calcium scaling what should i do? just scrape it off?
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by isoldmyexonebay
    Quote Originally Posted by tagprod
    Quote Originally Posted by android6011
    no we dont use salt water at all, we use liquid chlorine. and yes we do have a spill over spa, how long after adding the muriatic acid can you swim in the pool? Thanks
    5 minutes.
    5 minutes, wow that could be dangerous
    i kind of thought that was too soon, how long would you recommend?
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Muriatic acid mixes fairly quickly, but even so I would give it half an hour.

    There are various treatments for calcium scaling, none of them exactly simple. If you can scrape it off that is one solution. One good test to be sure it is calcium scale is to get a bit of it from the steps, where you know you are getting scale and not plaster, and put a drop of muriatic acid on it (outside of the pool). If it is calcium scale it will bubble and foam up.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13
    tagprod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by android6011
    Quote Originally Posted by isoldmyexonebay
    Quote Originally Posted by tagprod
    Quote Originally Posted by android6011
    no we dont use salt water at all, we use liquid chlorine. and yes we do have a spill over spa, how long after adding the muriatic acid can you swim in the pool? Thanks
    5 minutes.
    5 minutes, wow that could be dangerous
    i kind of thought that was too soon, how long would you recommend?
    I haven't grown a third arm or anything yet But wait as long as you feel comfortable. I've tested water at 15 minutes after adding the acid (on the opposite side of where I dump the acid) and I see the PH change. Your results may vary.
    Brian
    20K IG Gunite w/ raised 7ft spillover spa. 1.5 HP Hayward Northstar pump 425 sq ft Hayward cartridge filter, Colorlogic lights AquaRite SWG AquaLogic PS-8 control
    1hp pump for sheer descent

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Muriatic acid mixes fairly quickly, but even so I would give it half an hour.

    There are various treatments for calcium scaling, none of them exactly simple. If you can scrape it off that is one solution. One good test to be sure it is calcium scale is to get a bit of it from the steps, where you know you are getting scale and not plaster, and put a drop of muriatic acid on it (outside of the pool). If it is calcium scale it will bubble and foam up.
    ok i will try that tomorrow when it is light outside, if indeed it is calcium scaling can you point me to some suggested methods for removing it. THanks
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

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    so what abotu the stain like things, what should i do about those? that is my main concern at this point in time
    Let's get this thread on the OP's subject and not get sidetracked.

    Like Jason, I'm pretty convinced that's calcium scaling. Caused by very long periods of very high pH.

    That may be tough to cure but two things you can try are to keep the FC up very high, around 10-12ppm with your CYA reported @ 65ppm and,secondly, VERY, VERY, carefully lower your pH to 6.8 and hold it there for at least two-three weeks. It is important that you monitor that carefully as 6.6 is too low (probably) and 7.0 is too high to be effective.

    I think the calcium has encapsulated some dirt, junk, organics, etc. that the FC will go to work on and, hopefully, the pH of 6.8 will dissolve the calcium.

    Brush everything as often as possible with the bristle brush, it'll help break down the deposits.

    This process may take weeks and I have no idea that it will work. I'm sure lower pH would be more effective but I do not know for a fact at what point you will do damage to your vinyl liner so 6.8 is the lowest I can recommend.

    If nothing happens at the end of three weeks, it appears the liner may be shot at that point anyway so I suppose you could lower the pH to whatever you're comfortable with..... I see know other options.

    Keep us posted.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    so what abotu the stain like things, what should i do about those? that is my main concern at this point in time
    Let's get this thread on the OP's subject and not get sidetracked.

    Like Jason, I'm pretty convinced that's calcium scaling. Caused by very long periods of very high pH.

    That may be tough to cure but two things you can try are to keep the FC up very high, around 10-12ppm with your CYA reported @ 65ppm and,secondly, VERY, VERY, carefully lower your pH to 6.8 and hold it there for at least two-three weeks. It is important that you monitor that carefully as 6.6 is too low (probably) and 7.0 is too high to be effective.

    I think the calcium has encapsulated some dirt, junk, organics, etc. that the FC will go to work on and, hopefully, the pH of 6.8 will dissolve the calcium.

    Brush everything as often as possible with the bristle brush, it'll help break down the deposits.

    This process may take weeks and I have no idea that it will work. I'm sure lower pH would be more effective but I do not know for a fact at what point you will do damage to your vinyl liner so 6.8 is the lowest I can recommend.

    If nothing happens at the end of three weeks, it appears the liner may be shot at that point anyway so I suppose you could lower the pH to whatever you're comfortable with..... I see know other options.

    Keep us posted.
    thanks for your detailed response, but I do not have a vinyl liner, my pool is gunite, so will that affect your instructions? Thanks
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    thanks for your detailed response, but I do not have a vinyl liner, my pool is gunite, so will that affect your instructions? Thanks
    Absolutely! First, my apologies for not picking that up......the calcium deposits make much more sense now.

    With a plaster surface, I believe you are safe at a pH of 6.6...possibly less but I don't have the expertise. Importantly, you can also begin to brush the calcium with a steel brush that will break it up and expose more and more surface to the chlorine.

    Generally, you can be more harsh with your plaster surface and that will increase your chances of success.

    If you have no luck, The pool can be drained and professionally acid washed so you have that as another option.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18
    I really appreciate your help, so basically ill just need a lot of muriatic acid and a good brush?

    also kinda of offtopic, not for any time soon, but how much roughly would it cost to get the pool resurfaced in the future? thanks
    ~10,000 gallon gunite pool with spa that overflows
    1hp Hayward pump, filter
    replaced sand on may 24

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