Which Pump???????????????

[mas985]

First, the pool pilot is not intended to have two bypasses. The picture I showed already has a bypass (clear blue bottom fitting) and you are trying to bypass it again which will create problems with flow rate. So the grey bypass valve should always be closed.

But the pressure is still a bit of a puzzler because it should not be that high with dual return lines. What size is the plumbing?

 

[Richard_S]

I can't help wondering if the problem is in the flow sensor

Hmmm....that would be annoying.....only just fitted the thing....except bought it in the UK online, then shipped it to France....How complicated can I make it! Not next to the unit now, but will have to see how it goes this summer. Either way, all the water is going through the SWG and have kept the other bypass valve closed. Quite handy to have when doing any maintenance to avoid the SWG setup.

 

[Richard_S]

the pressure is still a bit of a puzzler because it should not be that high with dual return lines. What size is the plumbing?

I think it must be 2"/50mm... The pool pilot bore at the bypass is definitely bigger so there is a step up into the SWG and a step down at the other end, although I would say that all the plumbing is the same size as the top half of the PP before the cell.

 

[Richard_S]

Anyways....the whole pressure thing is another problem that I will resolve once on the ground. Assuming that I am in need of new pump as the reliability of the current one is definitely in question, then the Pentair Superflo P-SFL-153 1.5HP - or the 1HP version, would seem to be the right choice? I would wait until winter to see if I could not get the current one repaired, but as the pool equipment is only attended once a week if not once every two weeks, then I don't have opportunity to "kick" start it each time it doesn't get going....and I may end up with very un-happy guests if the pool goes green...So a full replacement seems my only choice.

Once I have that in place I will see if I cannot work out the flow rates on the SWG....fingers crossed it isn't the flow sensor.

Thanks everyone for your help thus far!!

 

[Richard_S]

Now having gone through all of these growing pains, I am now looking at the viability of Intelliflo pentair pump.

I have been doing the maths and assuming that I have this about right then it will take me about four years to amortise the cost of the intelliflo in reduced electricity bills.

Assuming my pump runs currently for about 5 months of the year (June-Oct incl) that gives me a approx 150 days. If I use a single speed Pentair 1HP superflo pump costing about 450 Euros or an Intelliflo VF costing about 1400 Euros.....then is it worth going down the second route with the intelliflo?

To that end, assuming that I have just a bog standard timer system to turn pumps on and off on a 24hr clock, can I just install the Intelliflo VF as is, or do I need another piece of kit from Pentair?

Also, which is more suitable for me? VF or VS....really not quite sure which is better!!??

finally, if you think I'm wasting my time and money even thinking about intelliflo systems then please feel free to scream and shout - I won't take offence.

thankyou.

 

[jblizzle]

Just to confuse you more ... have you considered a 2-speed pump? They are generally much cheaper than the VS pumps and save a good majority of the electrical cost if you are able to run on low most of the time.

There are also now smaller VS pumps available from Hayward that are cheaper if you do not need a 3HP pump (most people do not) ... the Max-flo looks very compelling.

The VS pumps have timers built in, so you would not need to use your existing timer system.
The 2-speed would either need an additional timer to automatically switch speeds, or just use a manual switch.

 

[Richard_S]

I was trying to get a Pentair 1HP 2 speed pump, but cannot seem to find the same serial numbered pumps as in the US. The Pentair pump that I can find is the P-SFL-101 which is the 1HP Superflo (and is monophased at 240V)....all very confusing, no one seems to know if they are two speed or not. I don't suppose I need anything more than a 1HP intelliflo pump do I?

You mention VS rather than VF....is that the better way to go?

Going to have a look at the Hayward now....just to confuse the issue further.

 

[jblizzle]

There is no 1HP Intelliflo ... they are all 3HP ... will there is one (the i1) that is electronically limited to lower RPMs, but it still costs as much.
The Haywards (Max-flo or SuperPump VS) are actually smaller pumps that end up being cheaper.

I just VS as a generic term for Variable Speed ... I am not sure what the Pentair VF means ... I think it just adds more bells and whistles.

 

[Richard_S]

There is no 1HP Intelliflo ... they are all 3HP ... will there is one (the i1) that is electronically limited to lower RPMs, but it still costs as much.
The Haywards (Max-flo or SuperPump VS) are actually smaller pumps that end up being cheaper.

I just VS as a generic term for Variable Speed ... I am not sure what the Pentair VF means ... I think it just adds more bells and whistles.

VF = variable flow.....?

they work at variable speed on using flow to determine their speed...as I understand it. And yes, I think you're right, more bells and whistles. The VF has an LcD screen where as the VS does not and is a little more basic...I think....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gExZumeaGpU for the comparisons to each.

3HP - Now i understand why they are so big....I thought the lady presenting was just very small!!!

I was just looking at the Max-flo and the SuperPump VS and what I can work out is that the SuperPump is just a little bigger....bearing in mind that I have 2" piping and a sand filter with a 90m3 pool, would you suggest one over the other?

 

[mas985]

The Max-Flo is a little more efficient than the Superpump so that would be my first choice. It is a little cheaper too. The only downside is that the maximum head is a bit lower than the Superpump but unless you have a spa or a very high solar install, that should not be an issue.

 

[Richard_S]

The Max-Flo is a little more efficient than the Superpump so that would be my first choice. It is a little cheaper too. The only downside is that the maximum head is a bit lower than the Superpump but unless you have a spa or a very high solar install, that should not be an issue.

OK, sounds good, as we have no head of any kind, apart from the couple of feet variance between the pool water and the pump, the Max Flo should do it - In Europe the ones I can find are called Max Flo XL VS and work out at about 1200 Euros, so 200 euros cheaper than the cheapest Pentair Intelliflo.

 

[Richard_S]

So, I've gone and done it....

just ordered a Hayward Max flo XL VS pump. Reckon with 150 days use a year, I should see an amortisation in about 2-3years....just within the guarantee. Now all I have to work out is the slowest I can run it and for how long each day to be effective. Onwards with my search through this wonderful forum.... thanks for all your help everyone.

 

[jblizzle]

We look forward to hearing reports about the pump. Pretty new so we haven't little feedback.

 

[Richard_S]

I can't help wondering if the problem is in the flow sensor

I'm beginning to wonder.... The Pool Pilot refuses to work below 2100 rpm. Not sure how to calculate flow rate without a meter, so can only assume that there is something not quite right with the flow sensor. Anyone familiar with the pool pilot digital that might know what I need to do to check the sensor?

Reporting back on the Hayward Max Flo VS pump; the European version that I have, although identical in every way externally to the US version, turns out to be different with regards to its programming; it has no timer built in, only speed buttons - and I cannot use it below about 2100 RPM as the pool pilot screams that the flow is too low to produce chlorine. This means that I am locked out of all speeds below 2100 (considering 3000rpm is the max) as I have no way of splitting the speeds from fast to slow on a time basis. So after all my efforts and research I still got it wrong.... I spoke to Hayward France and it seems that some clever chap somewhere in Hayward though that us Europeans could not cope with too much choice, so changed something (the guy was not prepared to say nor do I think he knew) in either the software of electronic hardware to delete the timer section.

I have to say that the pump is very quiet though...so that's one thing, although noise has never been my primary consideration as the pump is sited within a stone building well away from anyone or neighbours.