Troubleshoot a MasterTemp

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Yes, I believe the hoses are 1.5". No, they do not get stepped on at all. The only difference I can discern from last year is that I did not have as much curve in the hose - although there is still really very little -- just two very gradual curves that are like lazy "C's" -- last year there would still have been some curve, but probably only one not two (this year going through some landscaping that wasn't there last year.) Very very gradual, and same length of hose so not much difference from last year.

I still wonder if the water pressure switch got messed with. My belief is that last year at initial install, the installer did move the daisy wheel a small amount in the direction indicated in the manual for "heater below water level." But I see no markings on the daisy wheel to know where factory default setting was, or to try to adjust it at all. Does it sound possible I just need to find that sweet spot, or is that something that would not cause this problem? Thank you so much for your input.
 
Ick! I just went out to re-route the hoses and saw a mouse. Almost touched it! So......... would mice be anywhere in this intermittent problems equation? I did not get the hoses rerouted because a) I hate mice and this has now become my husband's problem; b) my daughter has some medical stuff going on today so I only get about 5 minutes at a time out there. I will try to re-route later this week when our household is back to normal.

1. Do the hoses having more curvature sound like a suspect?
2. Could rodents be somewhere internally causing this -- like an actual blockage? Ick factor just went way high!
 
1 1/2" pipe is no issue. You can pipe it with that or 2". Curves or turns in the pip has little effect as well, looking back at your pictures. Put your hand in the pool by one of your outlet jets and see how great the water pressure is coming back into the pool.
 
I will check that when i get home, but high has always seemed to have a lot of force and in fact the skimmer is fairly useless with it on high as stuff seems to sail by it. It does catch some stuff, but by no means is the surface kept clean.

Am I damaging the heater to keep trying it to see if it is a good day (it actually heats the pool to temp) or a bad day for it?? We have stuff planned for the next three weekends!
 
ps0303 said:
Well either it works or it doesn't. Doesn't make much sense that it might work one day and not the other.
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That's the frustratation. It works for extended times without issue (heated Saturday from 84 to 89 in normal time with no cycling - next day wouldn't heat without cycling and before getting anywhere near temp it went to Service Heater).
 
Yes, it is still in warranty. I called them today and they say they'll have the service manager call tomorrow to talk through some symptoms in more detail. I will pass along your suggestion - thank you! I will also now google fenwal, as I have never heard that word.
 
Spoke to Pentair today and the guy scoffeed at fenwal idea and scolded me for looking for answers on-line. Meanwhile, their repair person messaged me they are coming out tomorrow to clean out the heat exchanger. I have not been able to speak to them, so I don't know why they are now pointing to the heat exchannger, but at this point i don't care what it ends up being, I just need the heater to work. This is getting to be a lost pool season!
 

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Pool Clown said:
See if the Pentair guy will come out again, and have him swap out the fenwal. I have had two heaters do what you describe, but didn't want you to buy a fenwal if it is still in warranty. It is still in warranty right?
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What leads you to say the Fenwal ignition module?
 
Well, we scoff at your pool guy for being a "Pentair factory Service station" and not able to fix your problem on the first visit, so there! :)
We are at a disadvantage because we cannot be there in person to look at this problem. He has been there in person, and couldn't do any better than us!

Back to the problem...

The Fenwall (brand name) takes instruction from the control board and controls the voltage delivery(on/off) to the pilot valve, main valve, igniter, or spark (when so equipped). I realize that the symptoms point in another direction, and so they did in my case(s) as well, but replacing the Fenwall fixed the problem, go figure.

In the old days, it was easier to diagnose heaters as their operations were more mechanical, but today are more electronic and that has proved more difficult, with the introduction or gremlins, phantoms, and ghosts (bugs). Back when these heaters had just come out, the thermostat bypass would probably have been the problem (symptom). Now it seems to be something else. The pool guy should check the outlet temp of the exhaust before he opens up the exchanger. That temp reading would tell him if he needs to open it up or not (sooting). Maybe the HLS has gone bad. I don't repair every heater in the U.S. but i can count on two fingers the amount of high limits i have replaced in some 30 years. They just don't fail, but that's not to say they wont.

I hope this problem doesn't keep you out of heat much longer...
Good Luck
 
UPDATE:

No one came out yesterday. So recent events are: Last Wednesday they said run it on high with side suction open. I did that and it worked perfectly Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat. Sunday morning when I started it, it cycled a few times (firing, then looking for heat, firing, then looking for heat) and then went to Service Heater. I tried it a few more times Sunday and it would always quickly go to Service Heater.

Got emails from Omaha Pentair-approved repair guy (same ones who came out two prior times) that they would come down Wed and clean out the heat exchanger. No one came out yesterday. Today the guy called and said Pentair is saying it is not a warranty issue but a flow issue and they won't pay. I went back through the history with him and he said he needed to call Pentair and would get back to me. I asked why they were thinking heat exchanger and he said he doesn't know why that was emailed to me, that he does not think it sounds like heat exchanger. I have not heard from him again so presumably he is still trying to get a hold of the Pentair guy.

Last night when I got home I had still not heard from Omaha guys and although it did not look like they had been there, I was not positive. I turned the power off to the heater (based on input Tuesday from Pentair tech I called to try to troubleshoot b/c Omaha people did not return calls and I wanted info re how they now concluded heat exchanger, etc) and then turned it back on (Pentair phone tech had said I always need to do that after a Service Heater light to re-set it). So I did that last night, turned it on. Water was at 84 and I set it to 90. It came on and fired then cycled twice (did not go to Service Heater, just looked for heat and re-fired twice) - then it stayed on and ran fine for over an hour - raised the pool from 84 to 89, then cycled off. We were done swimming so I just turned it off and covered the pool. All this time the pump was on high and bonus suction port was open. I am now in limbo waiting to see if Pentair-approved techs out of Omaha will come back and if so, what they plan to do.

Does the intermittency eliminate any of the following - that is, does the fact that it works well sometimes mean it CANNOT be one of these:
a. Water pressure
b. Gas pressure or flow or whatever
c. heat exchanger corroded or scaled or whatever

I had read about the exhaust temperature being a useful bit of info, so at some point I attempted to measure it. I used a high-quality instant probe thermometer and got readings at the highest of 345ish. I held it directly above one of the openings in the grate, but did not touch the grate - but got as close as possible to in or right above the exhaust thing. I don't know if that is an appropriate device to use, but it is all I have.

Thanks for any continued interest/input in helping me get a reliably heated pool.
 
Boy, I wish I lived near you...I love these puzzles. Reminds me of when my 100,000 hayward was turning off after a couple of min run time. I would shut it down and restart it only to have it do the same thing over and over. Pulled the top off of the unit to see what might be up with it and of course while watching it, it would not do it. Put the cover back on and right back to the same problem. Had something of an eureka moment one night so I tested it again the same way. Over and over I would run it with the cover off and then back on. It would only shut off with the cover on. Looked around for pinched, loose wires etc and found nothing. Bypassed all switches and still had the same results. Scratched my head on this for a while and then tried something for the heck of it. I started to wiggle connection wires on the board. Ah-ha got it to do it when I wiggled the power feed wires to the board. Pulled the board and found all of the solder connections for the pins to the board had cracks around them. When the heater got warm enough the board would flex just enough to break contact. With the cover off it stayed cool enough to not have a problem. 2 min with a soldering iron and knock on wood it has been running fine for 4 years now
 
Unless the repair tech camps out at your house, you might never find the issue since it doesn't on a regular basis. I would suggest since it's under warranty you start making a lot of noise with Pentair. I would start escalating this problem with them and either get Pentair rep out to your place or start asking that they replace the unit since you consider it to be a lemon. Also the fact that the repair tech that Pentair says is authorized has not showed up on dates/times they said they would. So get on the phone and start escalating this.
 
UPDATE:
Pentair-approved guys from Omaha spoke to Pentair and they decided a) does not sound like heat exchanger; b) a Pentair-approved guy from Lincoln will take it from here. While waiting for that response, I got my original flaky pool boy out here. (He is the only pool guy who would help me set up the Pentair equipment suite with the Intex. He plumbed it last year, and got it all going. His helper is who set it up this year, which included re-connecting the plumbing because I take all but the heater into the garage for winter and firing everything up, including the heater.)

So Original Pool Boy came out last week and looked at the whole system and said all was working well. As we went through the symptoms and tried to find a "pattern" to the on-again/off-again working and not working, he concluded it was an issue with how quickly the water was able to exit the heater and get into the pool -- that is, it seemed like it was sitting in there too long and overheating. So we took the eyeball out and now the water has a much bigger diameter to come through at the return and thus exit the heater faster. So far so good. It has not given me one problem that whole time (Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun, Mo).

So now I run it with the pump on high, the bonus return open, and the eyeball and ring removed. Not wild about not being able to direct the return, and not wild about it rippling the surface so much, but my need for warm water trumps those issues.

1. Does this "fix" make sense? I still don't understand how if the eyeball was the problem, it shut off quickly sometimes, and other times would work for days at a time -- all with the eyeball being in and not messed with. Sometimes it would shut off well below temp, and other times only as it approached temp. Also, the eyeball is the exact same as last year, when I never had a single heater issue.

2. If the "fix" makes sense, do they make different sizes of eyeballs, such that I can get a wider opening but still be able to direct it?

3. At this point I am going to just use it and enjoy it. We have a lot of pool entertaining coming up. When that all slows down after the holiday, I plan to call Pentair and update them on it so they can decide if they want to keep my open warranty ticket with the Lincoln Pentair-approved repair guy -- he has me scheduled for July 9 to look at it, but if all is working it seems like I should release him to help someone else.
 
The eyeballs come in many sizes for standard sized fittings. I have one that looks like it is barely there a big opening with a tiny ring.

Sent via Tapatalk...
 
Pool Clown said:
Just goes to show, One good tech on site is worth more than at least three of us on the forum...

Keep that guy.
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Trouble is, that guy doesn't want to be kept. I am by far his lowliest customer and he seldom decides to work me in. When he does show, he is competent and a real problem solver who will think outside the box on stuff (like plumbing a pool that disappears 9 months a year). The second problem is that Pentair won't pay him!


As for eyeball sizes, thanks Vanya. If the heater keeps working despite this illogical "fix", I will look into buying one with a bigger diameter.
 

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