Drain/Refill Decision

[jfmorris]

Hi! I've discovered this website a week or two ago, and have spent a lot of time reading through Pool School, learning to use the Pool Calculator, and so on. Very good resource, especially since I no longer trust my local pool store. They've given me a lot of bad advice lately....

Anyway, here's what is going on. A year ago, I had issues with copper in the water (staining, etc), and dumped $300 on chemicals to sequester the metal (Metal Free is all they offer at the local store), and on stain removers (Ascorbic Acid). Got the pool ok, but this year, the same issues recurred as I opened the pool. So - more stain removers, 3 jugs of metal free, etc. The pool has been flourescent green, blue, clear and then cloudy, in that order this year. I believe at this point I am fighting algae, but after dumping $50 bucks worth of chlorine into the water in the past 36 hours (liquid bleach, then switched to dichlor that I had on hand), I'm about ready to drain and refill the pool. Which may let me also work out a wrinkle that has developed in the vinyl liner, on the slope down to the deep end.

Anyway, here's the numbers I know right now:

FC - 0
CC - 2
pH - 7.2
TA - 140
CH - 50
CYA - 30
TDS - 500

I dumped 15 pounds of dichlor shock into the pool last night, brushed the pool, and when I got up this morning - FC was back to 0, CC was still 2, and water is still cloudy to where you cannot see the bottom of the deep end.

So guys (and gals) - do I do a partial refill (and fix my wrinkled liner), or keep throwing chlorine and money into the pool. Liner is 5 years old, in case that matters on the decision to drain/fill.

Thanks!

Jim

 

[bmann71]

Hello jfmorris

Where did these numbers come from? Do you own one of the test kits recommended on this site? If they are accurate then I see no reason to drain and refill unless you do want to do a liner fix but it appears you just need to go thru the shocking process described here. http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/shocking_your_pool

That can only be done with a good test kit. (TF100 or K-2006)

cheers

 

[jfmorris]

Hello jfmorris

Where did these numbers come from? Do you own one of the test kits recommended on this site? If they are accurate then I see no reason to drain and refill unless you do want to do a liner fix but it appears you just need to go thru the shocking process described here. http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/shocking_your_pool

That can only be done with a good test kit. (TF100 or K-2006)

cheers

These numbers (other than TDS) come from a "DPD Complete" kit I bought at Leslie's (my LPS). I plan to order one of the recommended kits however. The results I am getting are pretty much in line with the in-store tests I receive every time I go into the store. I just don't trust their advice.

I guess I know shocking would help, but I am so disgusted at the $300-400 I have thrown into the pool so far this season, and we've not even been swimming yet. I've had the pool for 16 years (the time I've been in the house), and the DE filter for 12 years, and never had issues like this until I had copper issues last year. Heck. With the D.E. filter in the past I could run with total chlorine depletion and still have clear water....

 

[jfmorris]

Ok - looking at those kits, looks like my Leslie's DPD Complete is in fact the Taylor K-2006 kit. So test results should be good.

 

[bmann71]

Do you have any idea on how all of a sudden you had a copper issue after all the years w/o that problem? If you do decide on a drain and refill you may want to take a look at your metal readings of your fill water. You could be adding to the problem.

I don’t think it’s necessary since you’ve only been shocking for 36 hours. Were you at the shock level for your CYA level? I had to shock last year for nearly 2 weeks using over 48 gallon of bleach (I was dealing with ammonia you more than likely won’t be anywhere near that) but the end result was my pool cleared and I haven’t had to shock since.

Got’s to have some P.O.P. (pool owner patience)

cheers

p.s. mods/experts please put me in my place if I've mispoken. I've not really dealt with the metals like he's describing so maybe he is correct on refilling.

 

[jfmorris]

Do you have any idea on how all of a sudden you had a copper issue after all the years w/o that problem? If you do decide on a drain and refill you may want to take a look at your metal readings of your fill water. You could be adding to the problem.

I don’t think it’s necessary since you’ve only been shocking for 36 hours. Were you at the shock level for your CYA level? I had to shock last year for nearly 2 weeks using over 48 gallon of bleach (I was dealing with ammonia you more than likely won’t be anywhere near that) but the end result was my pool cleared and I haven’t had to shock since.

Got’s to have some P.O.P. (pool owner patience)

cheers

p.s. mods/experts please put me in my place if I've mispoken. I've not really dealt with the metals like he's describing so maybe he is correct on refilling.

Ummm. To make a long story short.... I brew beer, and use an immersion chiller (75' of copper tubing in a coil). You run hose water through the chiller at the end of the boil to cool down the wort (unfermented beer is called wort). In May 2012, without thinking about it, I ran the output hose into the pool, thinking - "hey - free hot water for the pool!). 3 days later the pool steps turned the color of ice tea (brown!), and the liner was discolored. It was a new chiller, and apparently the copper pipe immersed in boiling water shed enough Cu atoms to drastically screw up my pool chemistry. Expensive lesson!

So I don't think the copper is a recurring issue. This year it resurfaced when I increased the pH from 6.8 to 7.2, which brought it back into (out of?) suspension.

I am paying a little over $8 for 3 gallon jugs of the new "concentrated" Clorox bleach. Looks like it is just under 8% available chlorine - the old 1.5 gallon jugs were 6%. Yesterday I put 3 of those in in the morning, got home, saw the FC was 0, and I went through 15 pounds of dichlor granular shock.

Guess I need to go to Sam's Club on the way home and buy a pallet of bleach?

 

[bmann71]

I am paying a little over $8 for 3 gallon jugs of the new "concentrated" Clorox bleach. Looks like it is just under 8% available chlorine - the old 1.5 gallon jugs were 6%. Yesterday I put 3 of those in in the morning, got home, saw the FC was 0, and I went through 15 pounds of dichlor granular shock.

I suggest re-reading the Pool School and the link I provided above for shocking. It will take a little over 4 gallons of 8% bleach to go from 0 to shock level for you (13) with your CYA number and you have to hold it at that level till you pass the 3 criteria spelled out in shocking procedure.

A. CC is 0.5 or lower;

B. An overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less;

C. And the water is clear.

Have faith it can be done. I was on the verge of renting a backhoe till I found this site.

cheers

 

[jfmorris]

Well, Walmart is a 1/4 mile from my office. Just went on my lunch hour and grabbed 12 gallons of 8% bleach. Hopefully that is enough to get me through the night!

 

[jfmorris]

Well, hallelujah!

After 18 gallons of 8% bleach, my chlorine level is holding at shock levels overnight! I can see the bottom of the deep end for the first time in a week or two. So the beasties are killed, and the DE filter is doing its job now. Oh - I also did a partial water change. Turns out my CYA level was at 50. I drained and refilled enough to get it down to 34, so that my shock level was something achievable.

Now that the pool is clearing, and I am firmly sold on the BBB method (I already used Baking Soda, but not Bleach or Borax), how long is it going to take for the chlorine levels to drop to somehing the kids can swim in? I'll maintain it at 14 today - and I expect by tomorrow the DE filter will have it crystal clear. The wife is already asking when the kids can get in the pool though....

Thanks for all the help. I'm sold on this site and the advice available here. I no longer trust the LPS, or any of the random 20 year olds that are in there testing my water and giving me useless advice. They used to be good, when they had the same manager for 10 years. Then they had a management change, and the place is mostly kids now.