Eventually I will get the hang of this algae

[copotay]

I had my pool since last year and kinda fought some algae problems with the ladder, then I drilled huge holes in the ladder to allow the water to pass through it instead of the tiny holes that was trapping the algae. All good now but getting algae again.
Todays readings
TC - 7
CC - 0
FC - 7
TA - 100
CYA was 30 and brought it to 40 last week, its is now at 35 due to me vacuuming to waste several times
PH - 7.6

Ok, I live in south Louisiana 50 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. Hot humid spring and summers with rain coming out of the gulf and a south wind blowing from the gulf across marshlands of Louisiana. During the winter I kept the pool open, removed leaves, debris etc, and kept about 3ppm of Bleach with hardly no loss. As the temperature got hotter and more humid I had to keep bumping up to 6 then 7 ppm which is where I was at now because of a loss of about 3 -4 ppm a day. The water seemed fine with vacuuming, brushing, backwashing, etc. Then we got 2 1/2 inches of rain coming out of our nasty gulf of Mexico, not rain coming from the north originating from clean snow drifts. My water clouded but never saw evidence of algae, so I maintained my levels and it started to clear but never completely. I shocked at 15 two weeks ago and thought that would take care of it, then backwashed sand filter. I did not to the overnight test, my mistake. It cleared for the most part and kept it at FC of 8. I then added some stabilizer, not right after the daily bleach dosage, and overnight it turned cloudy. So I let my filter run 24/7 to see if it would clear.

Then with the bad weather in the mid-western US, we had a 20 - 25 mph wind coming out of the gulf streaming moisture to those areas last week along with a dry period flinging all sorts of dust, dirt etc into the pool. Our highs right now are at 91 with dewpoints near 70, oppressive. The pool had become milky not green. My wife thought it would be a good idea to talk to the local owner at Leslies who suggested Pool First Aid. They had one bottle on the shelf left, the owner said everyone in the area has been having a problem with their pools clouding up and this stuff was supposed to clear it overnight. So, against better judgement, since I believe in the BBB method, I tried it. The next morning, water was almost clear as a bell with large amounts of sediment on the bottom. I then suspected this could be some kind of floculant. I immediately vacuumed up the stuff, which was brownish green, to waste, took three times to fill the water back up to use the vacuum at the skimmer, but got it all. I then backwashed the filter and man, was it green water coming out. Let it run clear, rinsed, and went back to filter. Now since this I upped it to 10ppm FC yesterday after taking so much water out and when I saw the green coming out the filter. Today the water is relatively clear but u can see a hint of green in it and I found some small splotches of green on the floors. I have now shocked to 14 according to the CYA chart with a Cya of 35 that I rechecked again. I will now run the overnight test and see if I lose any. I am about frustrated to my wits end with this and trying to figure out where I went wrong, again. When I was child we had pools and I dont remember all these problems.

I had some questions too, like if I was keeping my FC above min according to the CYA chart on a daily basis adding the bleach faithfully, why did this occur, should I keep a higher minimum even if its over the chart numbers? I remember last year I had to keep it at 9 because even with 40 cya looks like the sun was eating it up pretty good. We are now getting about 8 hours of direct sunlight.

If I need to stay above CYA chart numbers like 10ppm with a CYA of 35 is it safe for the vinyl liner?

After these rains and wind storms, when the pool gets hazy should I bring to shock level, seems keeping my levels at the suggested CYA chart numbers is not working. I have read in here that some people never have shocked or done it only once a year, I dont know how.

I dont know if its my location I live in with our weather or what, but I am spending more time trying to alleviate pool problems then swimming. I have read the pool school many times along with the shocking procedures and lurked in the forums reading other peoples problems. I have FASDPD and the other Taylor test kit to try and get exact readings. Kinda frustrating some people use the wallyworld test kits, pucks, and shock and swim once a week and have no problems. All I can see is that they are flooding their pools with major chlorine that would kill anything trying to grow, but at the same time could be damaging their liners.

Chemgeek, I have followed several of your posts regarding the relationship between CYA/FC and now understand as you have said that a pool with 10ppm FC with a CYA of 50 is like 0.2 FC with no CYA. Some were very technical for me to understand, but I believe I get the just of it and appreciate your expertise. I just dont know if I was keeping enough FC with my CYA level of 30 to combat the organics even though the chart has specific numbers and I never allowed it to drop below 3.5. I also have moved my pool jet around to eliminate any dead spots and have good circulation in my opinion with my one horse hayward pump in the 21 foot pool.

Sorry for the long post, just frustrating

 

[chem geek]

If you are losing chlorine during the day but not at night, then your CYA is simply too low and you should raise it. Of course, your target FC would be higher with the higher CYA but you'll end up losing less absolute FC per day if your CYA is higher.

If the issue is cloudiness and not algae, then that's more likely to be an issue with filtration. After a wind storm if the pool is hazy, IF the FC didn't go below the minimum for the CYA level, then you probably just need more filtering and to speed things up could Add DE to a Sand Filter. Shocking might help or might not depending on what got blown in. Chlorine doesn't oxidize everything.

For the algae you are now seeing, is it dust-like and only on the shady side of the pool (i.e. is it yellow/mustard algae)? I presume this is a round vinyl pool so probably has no floor drain and poor bottom circulation and from your earlier posts you said there was just one eyeball return? I had suggested pointing it diagonally downward to improve bottom circulation so I presume you are still doing that, correct (you were looking at various return options)? Do you brush your pool weekly? Are you sure it's algae and not pollen or dirt?

Are the other people's pools you are talking about also round vinyl with a single eyeball return?

 

[copotay]

Tks for the response

>It is a 21 foot round we did not ask what the other people's pools were
>We usually sweep once a day no matter what and when sweeping the greenish brown tinted stuff when it "poofs" it has a greenish tint to it, now this is just lately this afternoon after I had done the initial vacuum to waste.
>I replaced the inadequate eyeball with a 1 inch PVC 45 so there was no obstruction for flow, I have tried different positions and had it pointed to the right down at the floor, where the return water comes out and hits the floor it's totally clean about a 5 ft x 5ft swath.
> the small areas I noticed today along the edges is where there are indentations or small wrinkles in the vinyl, today we had clouds all morning and into the afternoon but some places are shaded in the afternoon but now with the sun directly overhead no shade nowhere even along the edges. One of the main greenish brown "poofs" was in the middle of the pool where most debris accumulates from the round circulation of the water. I also believe the green I see now, what I vacummed off the floor, and what I backwashed out of the filter had to be algae suspended in the water, it was very bright green, I am believing this is why my water started to have a bluish green tint in the last few days

I plan to bring my Cya to 50 once I clear the shock and overnight test and will readjust my FC to compensate, I am just hoping it will hold off the algae, I have not stopped running the filter for a week hoping it would clear the water, but you know when you backwash the filter to clear the greenish stuff I believe is algae like I had to do, I have to wait for it to dirty up to start filtering good. I have not tried the DE yet but will, also we were using skimmer socks, two at a time, to try and filter out the finer particles, that's when I first noticed the green around the rim of the socks then when we wrang them out green water came from them. I we change them faithfully everyday. I thought that might have aided in the algae I have now because inside the skimmer is always in the dark so I took them off as of two days ago.

 

[chem geek]

What did the green feel like? Was it slimy (algae) or squishy (pollen)? Green algae would usually be bleached out to gray. Yellow pollen would look green against blue vinyl, but I presume your skimmer sock was white so that what you are seeing is truly bright green as you describe. If you have a microscope, then looking at this stuff under a microscope would be definitive since algae is translucent and usually oblong while pollen is solid usually round and often with spikes.

Normally, the only algae we see that requires a higher chlorine level to keep at bay is yellow/mustard algae, but that's dust-like and not green (except a blue background). It's always possible there's a more resistant green algae, but it would be very rare (I can recall one pool on this forum that had something like that). If you indeed had something like that and we ruled everything else out, then you could use an algaecide approach, but let's figure this out if we can before going down that road.

Another thing you can do is take some of that green stuff from the skimmer sock and put it in a jar of pool water and see if it grows especially as the chlorine goes away.

 

[copotay]

I know when I vacuumed to waste three days ago the greenish brown on the floor was very slippery on my feet. I have noticed also that over the last few weeks, even though I see nothing on the floor, it did occasionally have a slippery feel on our feet that's why we would brush daily. The skimmer socks were white but I did not notice it was slimey when I rang it out, it was kinda embedded in the fabric. I have no access to a microscope but I guess I could look at buying one, what power do I need to be able to see the difference.

6:00 AM - Overnight test just revealed a loss of 1.5
14 to 12.5

I forgot to add in my original post I was also adding algaecide already , bio guard backup

The dark blue liner is not dark blue anymore from fading so there is some white mixed with light blue

Should I backwash each day now?

Chemgeek, do you recall when you helped me last October I had a similar problem before the temps cooled off and I messed up by bringing FC to 26 to get clear water because 16 was not working and I was still getting green pockets with a CYA of 25 and you mentioned that that was too high and harsh on the liner becuase the CYA so low, I thought I had found the problem the ladder, but I guess not. Here was that post

i-think-i-found-the-algea-culprit-ladder-t54066.html

 

[Butterfly]

Should I backwash each day now?

You should backwash when your filter pressure increases 20 to 25% over the clean psi reading.

 

[copotay]

Tks Butterfly, I just wanted to make sure, because when I saw the green coming out of the filter I did not want it back in the pool, and didnt know if keeping the algae in the pump, that it filtered out of the water, would reinfect the pool

 

[copotay]

Chemgeek, would something like this one be powered enough to see the algae or pollen

http://www.amazon.com/My-First-Lab-Duo- ... MICROSCOPE

 

[chem geek]

Yes it would, but I wouldn't go out spending money on a microscope just for this problem unless you thought you or your kids would have fun looking at other things. Your description of green/brown slimy does sound like algae. BioGuard Back Up is a linear quat algaecide so might foam, but if you are adding that and the algae is still growing, then that is strange as well.

 

[copotay]

Tks my teenager is at home and I am sure he may get into it and might need it for high school that he starts this year. I plan on a little more upgraded one and am getting the one with a camera USB attachment so I can take a picture of whatever I have to post, maybe from there we can figure out exactly what it is. Should get it in two days, lol, of course we might have it all cleared by then. I will see if I can get my hands on some and keep it in a jar pending the arrival of the scope.

Ok an update, this morning I brought it back up to 14 and brushed before I left for work at 6:00 am. I had my teenager check it at 11:00 am, about three hours of medium sun, and he notified me it was at 8.5, I said do what and had him check three times at three different places around the pool to make sure he did not get some kind of weird reading, and he is very familiar with how to check it, hes been doing it with us since last year and doing it himself. I did change one thing, instead of to the right and down at the floor, this morning I turned the 45 degree pvc 1 inch elbow directly to the middle where it sends water to the middle of the floor instead of to the right and down. I wonder if doing this has stirred up and suspended the greenish brown tinted mess reforming in the center long enough for the chlorine to attack it instead of it brushing it where it would return to the middle with the other circulation of the outlet pointed to the right and down making a cicrulating current. I will post when I check it later this afternoon. below is a picture from last year with it pointed as we discussed to the right and down last year, the second one is how I pointed it this morning, also note the water clarity and liner from last year to this one

[attachment=1:2hvqosdr]photo%20in%20water.JPG[/attachment:2hvqosdr]

[attachment=0:2hvqosdr]photo5.jpg[/attachment:2hvqosdr]

 

[Casey]

I'm going to assume that the white is cloud cover... but that's a lot of fading. :|

 

[copotay]

Yes it was clouds and I know.

Update 6:00 PM, FC 7.5 and hints of small green blotches slong the side not bad but still there is some oh and now a plethora of backswimmers decided to move in. the center where the jet was hitting is pretty clean surface. I am now going to 16 FC and see what that does and sweep away.

[attachment=0:3co238r5]Pic from ted.png[/attachment:3co238r5]

 

[harleysilo]

I want a microscope, look forward to your pics!

 

[copotay]

I will definitely post some, they are pretty cheap compared to wasting chemicals so we can see what we are dealing with

 

[copotay]

5:00 am down to 12.5 with 0.5 CC, added to make 16 and brushed again, I guess it is working on something, to dark to see inside the pool bottom before brushing, have to go to work you know to pay for the pool I built. I also changed the 1 inch elbow to one of the extra eyes I had bought last year trying to find a good eye, this one does not have a large exit hole, about 1/2 inch, whereas this produces alot more pressure shooting out instead of volume. My pump was running at 12 psi and now its at 20 psi with this return. So this begs the question to see if this will aid in better circulation, it is pointed downwards and can only shoot immediately to the right and out, not way out and to the right like my contraption did.

Another subject for discussion is whether or not the higher pressure at the pump aids in better filtration due to the back pressure in the sand and tank compared to full out volume flow through the sand and tank. Not a Hayward Sand Filter expert but might stand to reason, time will tell. Opinions are welcome along with anyone that has some expertise in this area.
[attachment=1:23eieeiu]venturi1.jpg[/attachment:23eieeiu][attachment=0:23eieeiu]venturi 2.jpg[/attachment:23eieeiu]

 

[copotay]

Son reported 11:00 AM 13.5, added to 16, swept again not too much stuff on floor

 

[copotay]

6:00 pm - 9 ppm 0 CC, brought back up to 16 swept, still a bit of greenish brown fairy dust near middle slight striping along side but not bad. Water clear but still has a slight greenish tint. One note, I turned off pump that's been running non stop to switch out return, turned back on greenish brown shot out the filter for a few seconds then stopped totally clear. Pressure has been fine I had just backwashed two days before. Forgot to add in sun is full strength hardly no clouds.

 

[copotay]

4:45am - holding at 16 FC / CC 0, water not yet crystal clear still kinda hazy/cloudy With a flashlight, too dark to determine if anything on bottom. Forecast for today oppressive, high 93 heat index 101, at this point should I keep it at shock until the water is crystal or let it return to normal, I know one of the three criteria is until clear but how clear, i can see the bottom but hazy. I also need to get my CYA brought up to 50 with my little sockey with our sun and heat, can one now add the 15 ppm of stabilizer at shock level?

 

[duraleigh]

can one now add the 15 ppm of stabilizer at shock level?

You "can" but you shouldn't. Adding CYA during the shock process changes your Target for FC and usually results in more FC consumption. Leave your CYA alone and finish the shock process by filtering (24/7), keeping the filter clean, vacuuming, brushing and keeping your FC at the correct level.

 

[copotay]

Tks that is what I thought, and as Butterfly stated I should still will wait for a PSI increase on the filter before backwashing.