Baquacil to Cholorine Conversion

[sallyone]

HI everyone..
We have a brand new above ground vinyl pool (18x48), 7500 gallons, we have a Waterford Systems Pump (2 speed) and a Clean & Clear Cartridge Filter System

We started the pool with Baqacil and I want to switch it... there is always some black or yellow **** in the skimmer... the pool is still crystal clear so that isnt an issue. We have only had the pool for 3 weeks and only use test strips.... (Baqacil and AquaChem)

Baqacil Strips:
ppm - Baquacil Sanitizer and Algistat = 30
pH = 7.8
ppm Total Alkalinity = 120
AquaChem Strips:
Total Hardness = 250
Total Chlorine = 0
Free Chlorine = 0
Bromine = 0
pH = 7.8
Total Alkalinity = 180
Stabilizer = 100

What are my steps to convert?

Any input will be great...

[JasonLion]

Welcome to TFP!

The conversion process is the same as if you had had baquacil for years, lots and lots of bleach.

First adjust the PH to between 7.2 and 7.4. Then start adding bleach to bring the FC level up to 15, wait an hour or more and repeat. The more frequently you test and adjust the FC level the faster it will go. When the FC level holds overnight you replace the filter media (sand, cartridge, grids/fingers). The pool will turn all kinds of interesting colors, don't be surprised.

You can get started without a good test kit but you absolutely have to have a high quality test kit as progress continues.

We can go into lots more detail if you want and we love to see pictures of the progress.

Good Luck!

[sallyone]

OK so my pH is now at 7.8 what do you put in it to reduce the pH.

Is that black gunk and yellow stuff in my skimmer... is that the baqacil???

Will the pool turn all kinds of colors because it is killing the baqacil??? why if no algea or anything in it will it still turn colors?

How much bleach do you think I should go get??? can I use the tablet thingies too???or just use regular bleach.

Is there a chart or something around here that states what I need to keep my numbers at? and what to add to get things to lower or raise certain numbers??

Thanks
Susan

[duraleigh]

Virtually all of your questions can be answered if you will read thru some of the other conversion threads...several recent ones are very good.

[JasonLion]

Baquacil it's self turns colors when it interacts with chlorine.

Use regular unscented household bleach. You will be using a great deal, anywhere from 20 to 200 gallons, so it is usually worth shopping around a little to get a good price. Keep an eye on the percentage of sodium hypochlorite. It takes twice as much 3% bleach as it does 6% bleach to do the same thing. Some of the "cheap" house brands are really 3% and not nearly as good a value as they appear to be.

Get a good test kit, I recommend the TF Test Kit, see the link in my signature.

[NCFlyersFan]

Let me start by saying I am no expert. But, I just finished the conversion myself and couldn't be happier with the results. Here are some observations/tips that I found very helpful or some things I would have done differently if I had to do it again:

1. Start early in the morning. The worst of the conversion is the first day and it is nice to have lots of daylight to take care of business (see #3).

2. My pool turned several different shades of yellow, brown, pea green, and green (in that order) during the conversion. I also quickly developed a brown slime on the surface of the pool within 4 hours of starting the conversion. It all looked horrible but went away in less than 96 hours. In fact, about hour three my wife came out and started the "what in god's name did you do to the pool..." Don't worry, it will all go away and you will have sparkly clean water when you are finished.

3. I also have a cartridge filter. Be ready to clean the cartridge about every 2 hours (or more) the first day. This stuff (baquacil oxidized by chlorine) is very gooey and will quickly clog the filter, but as time goes by the need to clean the filter decreases. Today I will probably have to clean it once or twice. Don't be surprised when you clean the cartridge the first time to get alot of brown goo that will eventually become almost pollen yellow as the conversion goes on. And I am still getting the yellow even though the water is visually clear. Make sure you have a spare cartridge to install once the conversion is complete....I'm not sure if the baquagoo deep in the pleats can be dissolved by muriatic acid.

4. Get a FAS-DPD chlorine test kit. I have a DPD (colorimetric) test kit which required dilution of the sample water by a factor of 3 to 4 to be able to read the elevated free chlorine (FC) and combined chlorine (CC) levels. FAS-DPD uses titration which results in a more accurate and more easily read analysis and doesn't require dilution of the sample. Also, being a titration means you don't have to compare the sample color to the various "chips" which removes alot of subjectivity from the analysis. Just close your eyes when you see the price...it is well worth it and is more than paid for when you stop dumping lots of baquacil (read $$$) into the pool. If you need a full test kit, the Taylor K-2006 includes the FAS-DPD and all of the other water analyses you will need to perform. Do not use an OTO chlorine test kit as it only measure the total chlorine (TC) in the water, which is equal to CC plus FC.

5. I would let the baq sanitizer level go down for about a week before you start. The more sanitizer, the more bleach to convert, and the longer the conversion. I started at about 15 ppm and ultimately used 3 lbs cal-hypo shock (bad local pool store advice) and 16 gallons of 6% Walmart brand bleach (good TFP forum advice). Nirvana is 0 ppm baq which would require much less bleach to convert, but is also not realistic. And FYI...I'm still not quite done with the conversion yet as I have around 2-3 ppm CC.

6. Adding all of the bleach caused my TA to go up (about 180) without really affecting the pH (around 7.2 now). If this happens to you, ask how to fix it in the chemistry forum since all purely chemical treatments to lower TA will also lower pH.

Hope this helps.

[duraleigh]

NC Flyersfan,

Welcome to the forum...Excellent first post! Please post often.

I have not heard of chlorine increasing Alk.....I'd double check that test result.

Again, welcome...we Carolinians are trying hard to outnumber the Texans here but there's a bunch of 'em!!

[tnthudson]

Hello and welcome!
If you're in the mood to read, my conversion story (with pictures) is here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/viewtopic.php?t=4400
You can't go wrong if you read through some of the conversion stories in this string (Baquacil string) of the forum...pay particular attention to JasonLion, Duraleigh, waterbear and the posters with alot of experience in the conversion process...but any of us who have been through it are more than happy to help you pull your hair out -- err, help you in your conversion
It may take awhile (mine took about a month, that was too long, I could have made it shorter), but just keep calm & patient.

[sallyone]

Have you heard of Chlorivert?

While searching around for more info on the conversion I found that some people have used this to kill the Baqacil... and stated that it is quicker than using bleach.

I am hoping to jsut stop putting Baqacil in the pool and let the levels go down... tomorrow is the day we are suppose to shock it with the Baqacil so we wont be doing that or putting anything else in it... LOL

Thanks for all your input... I might start the conversion next week or when the Baqacil to get lower.

I will be back with pictures..

[JasonLion]

I haven't run into anyone who has actually tried Chlorivert. As I understand it, it actually takes longer than the method we are suggesting, but you get to swim during much of the conversion using Chlorivert.

[sallyone]

ok thanks

[sallyone]

We have chosen today 6/8/08 to start our conversion process.
We have waited till the Baqacil level was lower... so maybe the process will be easier...LOL We also dont want to wait too long and get an alge that will take a while to get rid of either.

Here is what we are starting with now....
Baqacil: 15
FC: 0
pH: 7.8
TA: 120
CYA: 50

Using the pool calculator (thanks for this) I know how much bleach I need to add to get my level up to 15 and how much muratic acid to add to get my pH down to 7.2
I am going to the store today to get the acid, but will start the bleach this morning...
I am going to take pictures, but need to see how to post them on here (I love looking at converson pictures...LOL)

Wish me luck... hubby is scared that he isnt gonna be able to use the pool for a long time..>LOL

OH YEAH... question...
Add the bleach thru the skimmer but add the acid to the water infront of the jet??

Thanks I will update soon
Susan in MS

[JasonLion]

You can add both bleach and acid by pouring slowly in front of a return jet. Bleach can also be added by pouring slowly into a skimmer, but I prefer the return jet approach.

The more frequently you can test the FC level and add more chlorine to bring it back to 15, the faster everything will go. At first you can do this as often as every half hour. When you start to have a significant FC level after waiting you can double the amount of time you are waiting.

[sallyone]

We just got back from Lowes buying acid.
We are going to take one last swim before we start the convert this afternoon.

I will post some pictures and keep you all updated on our conversion.

Susan

[duraleigh]

Sally,

Why is there CYA in your pool?

[sallyone]

not sure why there is stabilizer in the pool... but that is what the test strip said (aqua chem strip... trying to use them up... still hunting for a good kit locally)

[duraleigh]

"using up" the strips is giving you false information.

Doing a goo-to-chlorine conversion is quite difficult without the ability to test for chlorine levels in excess of 10ppm.

Trying to do it with old strips is gonna' be mostly guesswork.

[sallyone]

yep I completely agree... that is why we are off to get a test kit now...

Thanks
Susan

[sallyone]

Well I started the conversion today....
I started at 12(noon)... I followed the Pool Calculator with my numbers... (yes from the strips, but I havent found a good kit yet... even the pool stores dont have a good kit... so I am stuck using my Baqacil & AquaChem test strips till I can get one sent from online)

Here are my readings... NOON
FC - 0
pH - 7.8
TA - 120
CH - 0
CYA - 50
Added 236oz Bleach & 21oz Muratic Acid



Here are my readings....2:30pm
FC - 0
pH - 7.2
TA - 120
CH - 0
CYA - 50
Added 236oz Bleach



Here are my readings... 4:00pm
FC - 1
pH - 7.2
TA - 120
CH - 0
CYA - 0 (no clue what changed this)
Added 221oz Bleach


I am going to try and check it more often so we can get rid of the Baquacil quicker.... my pool is turing pretty yucky colors... which is sad since it was pretty and clear when I started...LOL I am going to try and check it every hour and see what needs to be added from there.

Lots of scum in the skimmer basket, yuck, looks like ocean scum. I know I need to go clean the filter... I went and bought a new one to put in once this conversion is all complete. I have taken pictures, I will figure out some way to post them this evening or tomorrow morning.

Ta Ta for now... off to clean the filter.
Susan

[sallyone]

Here are my readings... 5:15pm
FC - 1
pH - 7.2
TA - 120
CH - 0
CYA - 0
Added 221oz Bleach


I am going to the store to get more bleach... I dont know why I think this is taking more bleach than I thought it would... LOL... I have read the other conversions... I guess I just imagine our pool as being much smaller than the others.

How many days do you think it takes putting this much bleach in it at once...

I have ordered the good test kit online and it looks like it will ship Monday or Tuesday... so I hope to have it by the end of the week... I can hope cant I... LOL

I cleaned out my filter before testing or putting in anymore bleach... it wasnt black goop like I thought it was yellowy yuckyness... like the foamy gunk in the skimmer. It was fairly easy to wash off.

Off to the store... I will figure out the pictures too.
Thanks
Susan