Pool Opened Green, turned white Cloudy will not clear

[mihalakj]

Hello i'm hoping someone can help me here. I am being totally defeated during every battle in the war that has become the opening of my pool.

Pool Details
30000 gallons, inground, plaster.
2ft diameter 300lb Hayward Pro Sand Filter S2442 model
1 HP Hayward pump
Standard Polaris pool vaccum
Hayward variflo valve, pressure gauge broken and cant be replaced due to the valve developing a crack two years ago. I put bondo all over the outside, sealing the pressure gauge in place. This fixed the crack, but pressure gauge in now permanent. Replacement valve is on scheduled for delivery soon.
mesh cover over the winter, basically a lot of Crud probably got in the pool over the winter

Here is a timeline of my pool futility. Pump has been running continuously since 5/12 (except for backwashes, etc...)

5/12 - Opened it. Green swampy conditions.
5/13 - Used 30000 gal/super start up kit version of in the swim pool opening kit: model Y6200 http://www.intheswim.com/Pool-Chemicals ... ine-Shock/
5/13 - Put in 2 quarts of the algaecide in the kit, put pump on recirculation for 24 hours
5/14 - Put in 4 lb of shock from kit, followed by 2 quarts of rust/stain scale preventer & clarifier a few hours later. Pool stayed green, with slight green color improvement
5/15 - Pool store test showed PH really high, over 8. Put in PH down (5 lbs?). PH returned to normal 7-8 range.
5/16 - Put in "Green to Clean": http://www.intheswim.com/Pool-Chemicals ... To-Clean-/
5/16 - Put in 7 lbs of shock shortly after putting in Green to Clean. Green colored water turned to cloudy white/blue.
5/17 - vacuumed to waste most of the Crud
5/18 - Water was not clearing white cloudy. Started to believe I had a filtration problem
5/18 - Replaced Sand in Sand filter (all 300lbs). Put in pool vacuum
5/19 - In the past usually can see improvement in clarity, did not see this, so I added DE to the Filter, about 12oz.
5/20 - Still no improvement in clarity, bought pool store clarifier & "sand helper". Put in 8oz of magic blue clarifier. Also added about 12oz of "Sand Helper" after backwash of DE out.
5/21 morning - Still no improvement - Losing patience so I put in a s-ton of DE. Not sure probably 24-36oz.
5/21 afternoon - Still no improvement - Pump pressure can't be determined, but based on flow and operation of spa jets in pool, seems like flow is not strong. Backwashed out DE. Put in 12 oz of sand helper.
5/22 - Still no improvement. decided to not do anything and give the pool time.
5/23 morning - Still no improvement. Decide to wait until I get home from work.
5/23 late night - reading about chlorine demand and break point chlorination. Don't have anything besides pool test strips. In a rage of futility I run to Lowes and buy more shock to put in, in addition to extra shock I have on hand. In total I put in 18lbs of shock. Here are the kinds I put in:
4 lbs of standard in the swim shock: http://www.intheswim.com/Pool-Chemicals ... ool-Shock/
4 lbs of Lowes "shock plus": http://www.lowes.com/pd_34629-1772-2210 ... facetInfo=
10 lbs of Lowes "Shock X-tra blue": http://www.lowes.com/pd_254293-1772-228 ... facetInfo=
5/24 - I am positive that when I get up this morning I'll see improvement in the clarity. I don't. I am defeated.

Last year I had the same problem and I gave up quicker and drained an refilled the pool. I want to avoid that this year since it appears whatever is going on will be a regular thing.

If anyone has any idea what I'm doing wrong, let me know. Will post pics of the pool and will also get my pool store readings posted shortly.

Help me Trouble Free Pool Forum you're my only hope. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIFJLMyUwrg

 

[mihalakj]

Pics of pool attached. Contacting Pool store to get my pool water readings and will post later today. Basically the pool has had this white cloudiness since shortly after I put in the green to clean chemical. Can't really see the last step in the shallow end, never seems to change in clarity.

shallow End
[attachment=2:m5cfg9wd]image (2).jpeg[/attachment:m5cfg9wd]

Overall
[attachment=1:m5cfg9wd]image (1).jpeg[/attachment:m5cfg9wd]

Deep End
[attachment=0:m5cfg9wd]image.jpeg[/attachment:m5cfg9wd]

 

[joshs2000ss]

First off, welcome to the board. You're in the right place.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have been seriously "pool stored" as in sold a bunch of stuff you do not need. Please read through the pool school link at the top right of the forum. Most people here use nothing but bleach and stabilizer plus a few other items for tweaking numbers to get a great looking pool.

Get a test kit from one of the links here as soon as possible (order it today ) You really need to know what is going on with your pool and what the water has in it. I would stop putting shock in there because you are getting more additives than you need out of it. The chlorine in the shock will help, but the CYA (cyanuric acid, commonly known as stabilizer) can be debilitating if you get the amount too high and the only way to cure it is by partial drain/refill of the pool water.

You will learn quickly that you can't trust most pool stores, but read through some of the success stories on this forum, you can trust what these guys tell you.

Excited to see this one turn around.

 

[JohnT]

It seems like what is missing is constant high chlorine levels. You can hammer it every now and then and eventually get rid of algae, but if you want to get rid of it quickly you need to raise your chlorine to shock level and hold it there constantly. At first, your pool may use 15ppm of chlorine in an hour. You shock, and a few hours later your pool has 0 chlorine, and the algae that is left gets a chance to recover and start growing again. Though the pool isn't green, algae causes clouding in the stages just before it starts coloring the pool green.

You should also be brushing the pool daily to help the chlorine kill the algae and to stir any debris up so the filter can pick it up.

It would be very helpful if you had a FAS-DPD test kit so you can measure your chlorine to maintain shock level.

Read these articles to understand the process fully.

Defeating Algae

Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis

Shocking Your Pool

 

[Smykowski]

Welcome to the forum!! Or should I say, congrats on your first post?

From reading the content and tone of your post, I get two things...
1. You've been pool-stored, big time. None of the products you put in the pool were needed, and you likely overpaid for them. With the amount you paid so far, you probably could have bought a good test kit and enough bleach to get you through the summer, let alone clean up the swamp.

2. Your level of detail is amazing, and the fact that you're as methodical as you have been (and that you recognize that blinding spending money and dumping "stuff" in you pool is just insane) means that you're truly ready for BBB.

We can help you clear this, but you need to do a few things...
1. Order a good test kit. Either the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net (which is the overwhelming choice here-more expensive, but much much better bang for your buck) or the TaylorK2006.
2. Put your pool info in your signature. It will help us answer your questions. Go to User Control Panel (top left), Profile, Edit Signature.
3. Read Pool School (upper right corner of every page on the full browser). Focus especially on "The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry" and then click on full table of contents and read "The Shock Process". Also go to the "Defeating Algae" section and read the longest threads there to get an idea of what you have ahead of you. When your head feels like it's going to explode, back away from the computer, have a cold one, and go outside and brush your pool for a bit. After a break, go back inside.
4. Reread Pool School, and then read some more.
5. Once we get all of your pool specs we can try to help you limp along until your test kit arrives. When your test kit arrives, take a full set of tests and post it here. Then the war begins!

Most of all, repeat the following over and over to yourself: "I will not go to the pool store. I will not be pool-stored again."

EDIT: Good Lord you guys are fast.

 

[mihalakj]

Also forgot to add that I've been putting in about 6-8 chlorine tabs in the skimmer sock baskets (3-4 in each) since putting in the green to clean. Probably put in a total of 12-16 as they slowly were used up. Test strips show my free chlorine as the darkest color available so It seems I have chlorine, but I've read all the posts referenced here and realize I probably have the chlorine demand issue.

Can I buy a test kit that is digital instead of the droppers and put in this liquid put in that? If so which is the right one digital simplest to use test kit. Money's not an big consideration really since I'll be dealing with this issue next year it seems.

 

[mihalakj]

Here are test results from the pool store as of Tuesday 5/21:

free Cl 9.49 ppm
total Cl 10.55 ppm
combined Cl 1.06ppm
pH 7
hardness 231 ppm
alkalinity 60 ppm
cyan uric acid 91 ppm
copper 0 ppm
iron 0.1 ppm

 

[joshs2000ss]

Though we don't typically trust pool store numbers, it's at least a start. Your CYA (cyanuric acid) levels are likely higher than this number shows. If it is accurate, to get down to a manageble level of 50 ppm (20-30 would be better) you will need to replace 46% of your water. There's not really any way around this. You can do partial drain/refills until you get your test kit if you would prefer, but it's just going to take longer to get the results you want.

At this CYA level (if accurate), your FC will have to be at 23 ppm to shock and this is likely low. You see why the high CYA makes managing the pool a much tougher issue. It's also why you're not making progress with a FC of 9.

 

[Richard320]

Welocme!

Here are test results from the pool store as of Tuesday 5/21:

free Cl 9.49 ppm
total Cl 10.55 ppm
combined Cl 1.06ppm
pH 7
hardness 231 ppm
alkalinity 60 ppm
cyan uric acid 91 ppm
copper 0 ppm
iron 0.1 ppm

If those results are correct - and it's doubtful, because there are no tests that accurate; it would be like using a dial-type bathroom scale to say you weigh 123.45 pounds, but that's a whole other topic that's been beaten to death around here - your CYA level is too high and you're making it worse by adding pucks, and the FC level is not high enough for that CYA level.

That may be the longest sentence I've ever typed :lol:

Smykowski's advice still stands.

Stop getting pool-stored and take control.

 

[mihalakj]

Ok. I ordered the TF-100. In the meantime, should I take out the pucks and start draining the water? Is there some other way to get the CYA down other than draining? If I'm draining half the water, why not drain the rest and be done with it? I hate to do that, but if we are talking about draining half i've already been defeated in my quest not to drain.

 

[Richard320]

Ok. I ordered the TF-100. In the meantime, should I take out the pucks and start draining the water? Is there some other way to get the CYA down other than draining? If I'm draining half the water, why not drain the rest and be done with it? I hate to do that, but if we are talking about draining half i've already been defeated in my quest not to drain.

Not yet. You can't make informed decisions with doubtful facts. Wait for the test kit. And stop buying algaecides, shock powders, clarifiers, and all the other high-profit-margin pool store junk.

You may need to drain some water, but wait for hard data before you decide. You could add bleach to maintain 10-12 FC to keep things from getting worse until the kit arrives.

 

[joshs2000ss]

Ok. I ordered the TF-100. In the meantime, should I take out the pucks and start draining the water? Is there some other way to get the CYA down other than draining? If I'm draining half the water, why not drain the rest and be done with it? I hate to do that, but if we are talking about draining half i've already been defeated in my quest not to drain.

Fortunately you found this place. You may have to partially drain this time, but it'll hopefully be the last time, at least on this large of a scale. You will find that reducing the CYA level (if indeed it is that high) will make things so much easier to balance/maintain throughout the season. I would opt for the XL option and the stirrer to make life easier and ensure you have enough reagent for getting the pool balanced and for the rest of the season if you still can.

 

[joshs2000ss]

Ok. I ordered the TF-100. In the meantime, should I take out the pucks and start draining the water? Is there some other way to get the CYA down other than draining? If I'm draining half the water, why not drain the rest and be done with it? I hate to do that, but if we are talking about draining half i've already been defeated in my quest not to drain.

Not yet. You can't make informed decisions with doubtful facts. Wait for the test kit. And stop buying algaecides, shock powders, clarifiers, and all the other high-profit-margin pool store junk.

You may need to drain some water, but wait for hard data before you decide. You could add bleach to maintain 10-12 FC to keep things from getting worse until the kit arrives.

I agree on knowing the correct numbers, but if he's put in 25 lbs (from my quick add up of what was posted) of "shock" on top of what was in there from last year, I'm guessing he's going to be way high on the CYA level. While he's waiting for the test kit, he could get at least a 25% drain/refill done or more if he chooses.

Just trying to reduce the down time by stacking up as much progress as possible.

Maybe that's just the OCD in me that can't sit and wait on something coming out...

 

[mihalakj]

I too can't wait. I'm having my wife drain as much as possible today before we leave for the lake for the weekend.

Here is the plan:
1. Drain as much today before 2-3pm. right before we leave, stop the draining and put the hose in to refil.
2. Throw in whatever bleach I have on hand in the house before we leave
3. Tomorrow morning have my dad come by to check the water level to see if its back to normal. if not, he'll come back later and check until levels are normal (he lives about 5 minutes away).
4. Once water is back to normal water level, dad will add 3 gallons of bleach.
5. next day, come back, add 3 gallons of bleach. repeat each day until we return on monday
6. Tuesday, hopefully get test kit. Test water and post results here.

Also, since my valve is not yet replaced and I can't determine the pressure, i'm not sure how often to backwash or if I should even bother at this point. Would once a day be too much?

Let me know if any of that plan will end up causing me problems. I hate to waste days that I can be fixing it. Already wasted 2 weeks it appears.

Also further information: I live in a forested area. Check out the reflection in the deep end picture I posted. You'll see the reflection of all the trees around. is this what is causing my problem? how do I prevent it next year? Get rid of the mesh cover?

 

[duraleigh]

You can't make informed decisions with doubtful facts

Bazinga! Listen to this man.

It sounds like your water is reasonably hard to come by and you may be draining unecessarily. Probably not, but maybe.

I put no faith is pool store testing...none...not a bit....nada.

How much will 3 gallons of chlorine raise the FC in your pool?

What "shock" did you use? Cal-hypo? Di-chlor? tri-chlor it makes a difference.

In short, "haste makes waste" and lack of precision and planning is the opposite of BBB principles.

There is a good chance you will come out successful but my bet is if you do, you will have confirmed to yourself that you can continue to be imprecise in your pool management and then, the kit won't help like it is capable of.

 

[joshs2000ss]

As you are sort of working in the blind I can't say that this plan is what is needed, but it's probably what I would do. If your CYA levels are really not that high, then you will be wasting water.

If you decide to go that route, you can add bleach while it's filling also, just be sure to pour slowly and in front of the returns (where the water flows into the pool). Note that 3 gallons of 6% bleach in 30000 gallons of water will raise the FC level 6 ppm.

Be sure you are running the filter 24/7. I don't believe that backwashing once a day will hurt anything. Just be sure you use the order backwash (a minute or so), rinse (until water in sight glass clears), filter. Oh, and never operate the filter valve with the pump running.

 

[mihalakj]

Well I figure, the waters cloudy. If it replace half of it with non cloudy water, i can't be moving backwards in the process. At this point if I had to drain the entire pool I would.

I understand everyone on here is hardcore about the BBB method, but to be honest I just want a clear pool and get there the quickest taking whatever educated shortcuts I can. I've spent the past two weeks reading the articles written here (and other sources). I'm pretty sure this is a cholorine demand issue because thats all thats left due to process of elimination.

The test kit i've avoided because I figured the pool stores test had to be just as accurate. The test kit advertised on here is 68 bucks. How can the pool store really have something that isn't just as good? The only reason why i'm buying it is so my poor wife doesn't have to keep running over there since it sounds like we need to test every 2 hours or so.

The pool store I use is:

https://plus.google.com/112613954098612 ... l=us&hl=en

 

[mihalakj]

Pool experts, sorry for the comment about BBB, I just have been dealing with this for 2 weeks and want to get it over and done with. I'll do the draining and refilling, but I won't put any more chemicals or bleach in until I get back and have the kit.

Below is the shock type ingredients I put in.

5/12 - Opened Pool- Type of shock used opening pool:
4 Lbs ofof 68% calcium hypochlorite

5/16 - used green to clean, followed by 7lbs of shock - water went green & cloud to white I cloudy
7 lbs of 68% calcium hypochlorite


Type of shock used on evening of 5/23:
4 Lbs of 68% calcium hypochlorite
4 lbs of shock plus whose composition is Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione as per this webpage: http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenewals ... _22_PM.pdf
10 lbs of shock x-tra blue whose composition is Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione and copper (metallic) as per this webpage: http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenewals ... _22_AM.pdf

 

[xray328]

The problem is the pool store is trying to sell you chemicals. I have no idea how accurate the test they did is, but it's the "here's your numbers, here's how to fix them" that's the issue. There's nothing they sell there that you need. Everything needed to fix this is at Home Depot and Walmart.

 

[joshs2000ss]

I'll do the draining and refilling, but I won't put any more chemicals or bleach in until I get back and have the kit.

I wouldn't hold off on adding at least some bleach to keep the pool from turning green. You will lose some of what you add with the drain/refill, but you will also lose it do to consumption by whatever is in your water.