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Thread: Baq levels

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    Baq levels

    I just registered tonight because I just loved Baq till the last season. I have been reading conversion posts, but haven't seen any remarks on how high the Baq level was. I just opened my pool over the weekend. 28' AGR x 54" high. 19500gals. My Baq level is 50, per the strip test. The water is hazy just like all last year. Pool age is 3yrs this June. Is there a chemical that neutralizes the Baq strength other than water? We are ready to go to Chlorine. I dread the process. Is the PH going to be radically moving around?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    First, adjust your PH to between 7.2 and 7.4, get a test kit that has the FAS-DPD chlorine test (such as the TF Test Kit or Taylor K-2006), and stock up on bleach.

    The conversion proceeds by adding enough bleach to bring the pool up to 15 ppm, wait an hour or more, and repeat. Continue to do this as frequently as practical until your FC level stays the same overnight.

    After the FC level holds overnight you replace the filter and then add CYA.

    Keep in mind that the pool will turn all kinds of strange colors during the conversion.
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    The higher your baquacil level the more chlorine it is going to take.

    The PH doesn't normally move around very much during a conversion.

    A baquacil conversion can be an adventure, but there is nothing really to worry about. Pretty much the worst that can happen is that it takes longer than it might otherwise have. The pool will turn various entertaining colors. Enjoy them while you can, it will be limited to blue or green after you are done.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Baq levels

    Thank you for your advice. Would it be best if someone can watch the pool on an hourly basis to check the PH and filtering processes? It sounds like there will be a lot of filter cleaning, backwashing, etc. Should I buy about 20 gals of bleach? Any store brand, shop by price, cheapest?


    Quote Originally Posted by poolpsycho
    I just registered tonight because I just loved Baq till the last season. I have been reading conversion posts, but haven't seen any remarks on how high the Baq level was. I just opened my pool over the weekend. 28' AGR x 54" high. 19500gals. My Baq level is 50, per the strip test. The water is hazy just like all last year. Pool age is 3yrs this June. Is there a chemical that neutralizes the Baq strength other than water? We are ready to go to Chlorine. I dread the process. Is the PH going to be radically moving around?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    First, adjust your PH to between 7.2 and 7.4, get a test kit that has the FAS-DPD chlorine test (such as the TF Test Kit or Taylor K-2006), and stock up on bleach.

    The conversion proceeds by adding enough bleach to bring the pool up to 15 ppm, wait an hour or more, and repeat. Continue to do this as frequently as practical until your FC level stays the same overnight.

    After the FC level holds overnight you replace the filter and then add CYA.

    Keep in mind that the pool will turn all kinds of strange colors during the conversion.
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    bleach choices to start the process.

    This will be a fun adventure. I am going to get the water tested and start from there. I guess that it is not a good idea to go in the pool while the change is taking place. I will be looking in the store ads for the bleach prices and stock up. Will I be looking for a particular strength of bleach? Thank you, I will be updating here when I get started this weekend.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    The higher your baquacil level the more chlorine it is going to take.

    The PH doesn't normally move around very much during a conversion.

    A baquacil conversion can be an adventure, but there is nothing really to worry about. Pretty much the worst that can happen is that it takes longer than it might otherwise have. The pool will turn various entertaining colors. Enjoy them while you can, it will be limited blue or green after you are done.
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    I didn't see you mention what kind of filter you have. DE filters require some extra attention, but even then you can usually get away with daily checks.

    The more frequently you measure the FC level and raise it back up the faster the whole conversion will go. But there isn't any need for frequent testing of the other numbers. You should only need to check the PH once every couple of days during the conversion and the other numbers less than that.

    You will very likely need much more than 20 gallons of bleach. Given the quantities involved, you want the best price you can find for 6%, unscented no extra features. Though if you have a source of 10% or 12% it is worth checking out as they are sometimes cheaper and always easier to carry.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Bleach supplies at a good price. Chemical calculator websit?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    I didn't see you mention what kind of filter you have. DE filters require some extra attention, but even then you can usually get away with daily checks.

    The more frequently you measure the FC level and raise it back up the faster the whole conversion will go. But there isn't any need for frequent testing of the other numbers. You should only need to check the PH once every couple of days during the conversion and the other numbers less than that.

    You will very likely need much more than 20 gallons of bleach. Given the quantities involved, you want the best price you can find for 6%, unscented no extra features. Though if you have a source of 10% or 12% it is worth checking out as they are sometimes cheaper and always easier to carry.
    Jason,


    I have been getting 6% plain jane bleach from ALDI's at 3qt plastic jugs for $.99 I have used about 46 bottles over the past few days since this weekend when we opened the pool. I haven't got close to the 15% yet. The highest was 8%. Would it be better to just get some liquid chlorine from a pool supplier to get it up quicker? I didn't know if the recommendation was to get the chlorine levels up to 15ppm ASAP or do it more gradually.

    I am new to the Chlorine testing since I was a Baquicil user since 1993. I never tested Chlorine pools. The water never got gooky with scum. It has remained a light green after the initially light brown/tan shade. Maybe because I used Branch Brook Pools (Namco) SAF-T-SHOCK in my initial step. The label just says it is a (Chlorine Free Oxidizing Agent). There is no chemical listed as an ingredient.

    Can you recommend a site that calculates the amount of chemicals needed to go from one reading to the desired reading? I did read one that had liters as a measuring unit. It was labeled as "The Pool Calculator". Thanks for all of your suggestions.

    Steve

    I was only able to get Leslie's #81-330 Complete Poolcare DPD Test Kit. I hope it suffices. When I need to replenish, I will get the TF-100.
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    There is a link to The Pool Calculator in my signature. It can calculate in liters. Enter your pool size, current FC reading, set the FC goal to 15, and it will tell you how much bleach to add.

    You want to add enough chlorine to bring the FC level up to 15 all at once each time, but don't expect the chlorine level to actually get to 15 for some time. The chlorine will react with the baquacil very quickly and get used up. You can test FC and add more chlorine as frequently as once an hour. The more often you add chlorine the faster the entire process will go.

    Pool store chlorinating liquid is the same thing as bleach but more concentrated. That means less carrying but otherwise it is exactly the same thing. The process won't go any faster with liquid chlorine than with bleach.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    There is a link to The Pool Calculator in my signature. It can calculate in liters. Enter your pool size, current FC reading, set the FC goal to 15, and it will tell you how much bleach to add.

    You want to add enough chlorine to bring the FC level up to 15 all at once each time, but don't expect the chlorine level to actually get to 15 for some time. The chlorine will react with the baquacil very quickly and get used up. You can test FC and add more chlorine as frequently as once an hour. The more often you add chlorine the faster the entire process will go.

    Pool store chlorinating liquid is the same thing as bleach but more concentrated. That means less carrying but otherwise it is exactly the same thing. The process won't go any faster with liquid chlorine than with bleach.

    Since I read your post, I have been testing the FC and going online to use TPC to get my bleach calculations. Thanks so much for taking the calculations computations and making them as fast as a click of the Enter key! We vacuumed again this evening and the water is getting clearer. I backwashed a few times today to clean the filter sand. So far so good!

    Steve
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by poolpsycho
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    There is a link to The Pool Calculator in my signature. It can calculate in liters. Enter your pool size, current FC reading, set the FC goal to 15, and it will tell you how much bleach to add.

    You want to add enough chlorine to bring the FC level up to 15 all at once each time, but don't expect the chlorine level to actually get to 15 for some time. The chlorine will react with the baquacil very quickly and get used up. You can test FC and add more chlorine as frequently as once an hour. The more often you add chlorine the faster the entire process will go.

    Pool store chlorinating liquid is the same thing as bleach but more concentrated. That means less carrying but otherwise it is exactly the same thing. The process won't go any faster with liquid chlorine than with bleach.

    Since I read your post, I have been testing the FC and going online to use TPC to get my bleach calculations. Thanks so much for taking the calculations computations and making them as fast as a click of the Enter key! We vacuumed again this evening and the water is getting clearer. I backwashed a few times today to clean the filter sand. So far so good!

    Steve
    I added 5+ 96 oz jugs of bleach at around 720pm Fri night as per TPC. Waited till 930pm and retested. Right on the mark at 15FC. The filter is running 24/7 since the past weekend.

    Today, Saturday 6-06 at 9am, I retested FC. The level is at 5FC. Should I bring it back up to 15FC now and keep it at that level as much as I can during the sunlight hours, or wait till evening to add bleach? It will be a very hot 90 degree sunny day today and for the next few days. The water is looking real nice!

    Also, is it OK to let the kids go into the pool as this conversion is going on. They went in yesterday (before I added the bleach) to vacuum and play. They are dieing to go in this weekend!
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    Swimming is not recommended while doing the conversion. If the FC level is between 1 and 5 swimming is plausible, but between sunlight and baquacil it is very tricky to keep FC in the safe range.

    It is most effective to add chlorine in the evening at this point. Because the baquacil reaction has slowed down, you will lose too much FC to sunlight during the day. The ideal thing is to test FC and add chlorine as needed a couple of times over the course of the evening.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Baquacil conversion

    I just did the conversion. Started Memorial Weekend. Baq level was around 50. I purchased the Deluxe ABC Kit from poolgearplus.com. My pool is a 16x32 abv grnd oval, 52" sides, 4' deep water, sand filter. I am in a rural location in upper thumb of MI. Surrounded by farm land and a lot of wind almost constantly. I use my well as the source of water for the pool. Impossible to cover pool other than I leave an old solar cover floating on the surface with the water level dropped about a foot for the winter. The kit has 1lb packages of super shock (45% available cl2). This has made it much easier than many of the postings I have read. Heres how I did it, hope it helps;
    1) scoop out leaves from tree and corn stalks.
    2) run two hoses to pool (keeps well pump running instead of constantly cycling on and off) fill to top and leave running while vac to waste to get rid of the dirt settled to the bottom.
    3) started running the filter and added 2lbs of the shock. Note: if you use test strips the high cl2 levels eat up all the cl2 reagent on the strip (instantly) which will make it look like you don't have a cl2 residual. I monitored cl2 at my lab at work but if you had to use just test strips you may have to dilute your sample with distilled water to come up with the residual. Of course there are other test kits you could use.
    4) ran filter long enough to circulate shock then let the pool just set overnight. as the pool set an interesting scum developed on the surface. by morning there was a layer of sediment over the bottom of the pool.
    5) Vac to waste again. then filter for several hours and added another dose of 2lb of shock. kept filtering, vac'ing (thru filter now) and backwashing as needed.
    6) put the floating chlorinator in the pool and kept monitoring how stable cl2 residual was and over the next three days added two more pounds of shock when needed to keep the pool above 10ppm free cl2. by end of the third day the pool looked better than it had for the last two years spending around 1k on Baquacrap.
    7) once cl2 stabilized, I added the Super metal control. next day added a dose of the algicide/clarifier. filtering constantly backwashing only as needed.
    8) now we're at day 6 pool has only very light haze so I added 1lb of the non-cl2 shock inluded in the kit. next day added one more pound of non-cl2 shock and later one more dose of algicide/clarifier.
    9) at day 8 this pool looks spectacular. starting up heater and putting on solar cover. Son and friends have already been in pool and other than cold or "holy **** this is cold" as they put it the water felt great. Have throttled floating chlorinator back as cl2 level is very stable but a tad higher than I would like.

    I have spent less than $300 and less than 2 weeks getting the water better than it has been in two years and still have enough supplies probably for the entire season. It should be a crime that Baquacil is still made and sold!

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    What's next step? if any

    I've been running the filter 24/7 since starting this conversion. Last night I shut the filter off. The pool water has been clear since the beginning of this week. I had been testing the water in the evening between 8 and 10pm. I didn't know when the overnight test should be done. I was doing it the same time each night. I checked last night after another evening of 0 FC and added 1 gal of 12.5% chlorine not knowing what the FC level should be. I had been trying to post the readings the past few days and I guess your conversion didn't help matters in getting a post in. After a time peiod of 90mins Thurs night I got the following readings:

    FC 4
    PH 7.6
    TA 60ppm
    CH 40ppm

    After the 90min run last night, I shut off the filter to give it a rest. Now at 450am on Friday 6-13 I am getting these readings:

    FC 3
    TC 3
    CC 0
    PH 7.6
    TA 70
    CH 40
    CYA 0

    What is my next step?
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

  13. Back To Top    #13
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    Re: Baq levels

    To do the overnight test:

    1) wait till it is dark out
    2) raise the FC level to around 15 by adding bleach/liquid chlorine
    3) wait half an hour to an hour with the pump running
    4) measure the FC level and note it down
    5) the next morning as early as possible measure the FC level again

    If the two measurements are the same, or within 1 ppm, then you are good. If the FC level dropped more than 1 ppm, you need to keep working at it.

    If I am following your description, you did that except that you used a lower FC level. The test is less precise at lower FC levels so you can't be sure, but CC is also zero, which is good, so you are probably done or very close. I would test again tonight with the proper FC level just to double check.

    Once the FC level remains the same overnight you can replace your filter media and then start adding CYA.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Baq levels

    Thanks,

    I will bring up the FC to 15 this evening and let the filter run all night. I think you recommend leaving the pump running all night, correct? Then Sat early am around 5-6am I will recheck the readings and see how it goes. I will post my results sometime Sat before lunch. Happy Fathers' Day to all Dads!

    Steve
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    Re: Baq levels

    When doing the overnight test, do I need to have the filter running? I am nearly complete on the conversion I think. See my previous post on the previous night and next morning readings. My water is clear. I was going to let it run to mix the bleach I put in at 855pm, let the filter run an hour and shut it off for the night. I can't imagine what my electric bill will be for running the filter 24/7 for all but 1 night since 2wks ago. I would like to shut it off tonight.

    I might have missed the posts on this one question. Just wondering if the test would be valid not running the filter. What are your comments at this stage of conversion?

    The is complaining about the filter running and the electric bill. I tried to explain the process to her but the doesn't understand that converting from Baq takes some time to do the job correcly. So far, I am well pleased with the results. I didn't have any goo to deal with even though I had 50 reading of Baq at the start of conversion. I used the non-chlorine shock that the local pool chain recommended.
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

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    Re: Baq levels

    Yes, run your filter 24/7 till the conversion is complete. The bill will come, and it will be paid, and it will be a distant memory. Just point out to her how much money you will save running your pool on BBB as opposed to Baq. The cost savings alone is worth running the filter 24/7 for the conversion....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: Baq levels

    My readings 10pm Mon night, 6-16-08 are as follows:

    FC 15
    TC 15
    CC 0
    PH >8.0 (4 drops R0005 Acid Reagent to drop to PH 7.2)
    TA-80
    CH 40
    CYA didn't test it was 0 on previous test.
    Readings 5am Tues morning 6-17-08

    FC 15
    TC 15
    CC 0
    PH 8.0 (3 drops Acid Reagent to drop to PH 7.4)
    TA 80
    CH 40
    CYA didn't test.

    Water is clear and sparkly.
    I hope this conversion is complete. I can't afford putting $8.00 daily into it. I hate to say it, but the Baq was cheaper and less work. Just had to deal with hazy water.
    I added 7 jugs 6% bleach last night at 915to 930pm Tues 6-17, fell asleep and didn't test the water. I woke up at 1245am today.
    When the time comes, do I change the sand before the next step? Which would be what?

    I took a reading 530am Weds of:

    FC 15
    TC 15
    CC 0
    No time to do other tests..
    I have read notes about adding the CYA in a sock. Are you talking about a person's sock or some other kind of sock and tying it to the ladder or something?

    Thanks
    Steve
    19500gals 28' x 54" AGR vinyl
    3/4 hp Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter S210T
    3yrs old June 2008

  18. Back To Top    #18
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    Re: Baq levels

    There is some extra work during the conversion, but that is nearly over. Once the conversion is completely over things will get far simpler.

    You are good to change your filter media and then add CYA. It is simplest to add CYA directly to the skimmer and then remember not to backwash the filter for one week. If you do use a sock it can be nearly any kind of sock. I use knee high stockings or skimmer socks but regular socks work just fine also.

    If your CC level goes above 0.5 you will want to keep FC at 15, which will be easier with CYA in the water. That is likely to happen occasionally for a couple of weeks as any last baquacil gets oxidized. As long as CC is 0.5 or lower you can let FC go down to the level appropriate for the CYA level you are targeting. I suggest CYA between 30 and 50 and FC levels around 4 to 7.
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