Brown Cloudy Water - not clearing

[rain4orla]

Hello, 1st post here. Just registered at TFP but lurked some last year. Feel like I have a pretty good understanding of Pool School and your posts have been more than informative.

The Facts:

30,000 gallon pool. Left pool open last fall, yard surrounded by trees, all leaves fell in pool, spring came (filter had not been running), algae - dark and green. Dark and murky swamp. Basically couldn't see the first step in shallow end.

Started out last week scooping everything I could out of there. Then on Saturday, dumped 5 121oz bottles of 8.25% bleach in late afternoon/evening. Next morning FC was at 0. So I hit it again and again. By Sunday evening I had FC readings, and only have been losing a couple of ppm overnight since then. Still bringing back up to shock level (or what I perceive to be) , or a little higher.

The pool went from a dark murky green to a muddy brown in a day. Still keeping at shock level (or higher), backwashing when filter pressure gets too high. Probably have backwashed 8-9 times since Sunday. Been at a muddy brown for 3 days with absolutely no change. I have not been able to get a CYA reading. I put 4 bags of dichlor shock in Sunday along with 4 trichlor tabs trying to bring up CYA but no luck yet. (Sidenote - My pool gets full sun for approx 5 hours a day). Been keeping the FC beween anywhere from 3-6 during the day. Not trying to go too high. (Is it possible I had 10-20 CYA and it just wasn't registering and I have not had my shock level high enough?) Decided to go a little higher on the FC this morning before I left for work. Here are my #'s now measuring at lunch:

FC - 11
CC - 3.5
TA - 40
CH - 20
CYA - 0 (0-20?)
PH - 6.8

Could someone please offer some kind advice on how to proceed from here to clear up this muddy brown water? 3 days - no change. Should I keep my shock level higher than the 3-6 range I have been keeping it in? I was going to try and get my water clear first before worrying about TA and PH levels. I know it's only been 5 days, just figured that muddy brown color would have at least changed a little in 3 days. But no, it's the exact same color.

Thanks!

Should I vacuum even though I can't see the floor?

 

[duraleigh]

Bring your pH up to about 7.4.

How many times have you had to backwash in the last 12 hours or so?

 

[rain4orla]

Just once. And that was at lunch today. It rained all day yesterday and all night. A lot. I had to bypass to waste a few times last night b/c it was raining so much I had to take the pool level down so it didn't overflow.

 

[duraleigh]

It sounds like your backwashing frequency is slowing down which means the pool has less junk in it.....that's good.

Keep your FC around 8-10 for right now but then do a CYA test tomorrow. Add enough CYA to get to 30 ppm if you are not already there.

Now hold your pool at 12 ppm for the duration of the clearing process and you should see some progress daily.

It sorta' sounds like your pump and/or filter might be a little small so it is taking extra time. Nevertheless you have no choice but to keep on plugging away. It WILL clear if you keep adequate chlorine in there and run the pump 24/7 and backwash when needed.

 

[rain4orla]

Well, this is a little baffling. Still cloudy brown but now may be turning back green. Split pea soup color. Been brushing and vacuuming.

Now I'm thinking I haven't had enough chlorine in the dang pool. Could never get a CYA reading even after I shocked with 4 bags of dichlor last Sunday and have used around 8 or 9 pucks of trichlor from last Sunday until today. Checked CYA again Thursday and no reading. Been keeping shock level between 10ppm and 12ppm. Added 1 gallon of stabilizer on Thursday that raises 32ppm per 10,000 galllons. I have 30,000 gallons so that should be around 10-11ppm CYA, correct?

So, I just used the last of my old R-0013 for testing CYA on Thursday. Still no CYA reading on Thursday (this was before I went to store to buy stabilizer). Today I used the new R-0013 bottle that just came and the dang CYA level is showing between 40-50 (closer to 40)! So, I've been shocking at a level for CYA of 20 (FC - 10) all week! Not sure what to think about this.

Just bumped up FC to 18.5 and I guess we'll see what happens. Frustrated!!!

 

[SkyKid]

Open some pop(Pool Owner Patience) and just keep doing what the pro's here tell you it will work
it worked for me so I know it'll work for you

 

[rain4orla]

Hello, OP here. Wanted to revisit my initial problem I posted about in this thread

Water is now a little more greenish than brown but maybe a tad clearer but not much at all. Still really cloudy and greenish brown. Can see to second step in shallow end almost clear and third step is cloudy but can make it out. I was only shocking to around 10-12ppm level for CYA < 20. Put in stabilizer Thursday and checked CYA level Saturday noon and it was showing CYA of 40. So immediately bumped up chlorine level to 18.5ppm and have kept it there since and even higher at 20-22ppm since Sunday night. Still no change in color. Been brushing and vacuuming.

I bought some DE yesterday to put in my sand filter. Put in about 3/4's of a cup mixed with water into the skimmer and it immediately shot up about 10psi. Backwashed and let filter run a while, then added about a half cup more DE and it shot up 7 or 8 psi in about 10 minutes. Can I just keep adding DE like this and then backwashing as soon as psi goes up? Will this damage pump if you keep doing this a bunch? Or is this good that the DE is working like this?

 

[duraleigh]

I think you may be seeing the result of too much DE in your filter.

How long does it normally take (without DE) for your psi to rise enough for backwashing?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Its working but I would try half the amount of DE. Sounds like it's just too much all at once.

Dave beat me to it ;-)

 

[rain4orla]

Since I started this process, been backwashing around twice day. Once in the morning and once in the afternoon.

So if I put a 1/4 cup DE in, what is my desired result? Just for psi to go up by 1?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Right. You just want to create a small fine layer of DE on top cuz a "dirty" filter filters better and the DE filters smaller particles than sand. When you were backwashing twice a day was it because the pressure indicated the need or the flow was reduced to a trickle? Sometimes backwashing too much can slow the clearing process...

 

[rain4orla]

Both. Pressure indicated the need and the flow was reduced. Stronger than a trickle but I can tell when the psi goes up that the flow is definitely reduced.

I'll try a 1/8-1/4 cup of DE. And keep FC level between 18-20.

At what point do I assume I may have a filtration problem?

 

[duraleigh]

At what point do I assume I may have a filtration problem?

Well, your filter is doing exactly what it is intended to do so I would say, "never".

I'm not sure why you would think there may be something wrong with your filter....can you elaborate?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Well... I'll chime in that it can be a hit and miss trouble shoot thing... but usually it's just Pool Owner Impatience!

2 years ago I took over a pool at a house in foreclosure and the renter wanted to open the pool that had been abandoned for 2 years. After getting it all shocked, etc. and it just wasn't clearing despite the FC holding overnight... from experience after 2 weeks I know it isn't right. I noticed some aeration from the jets at the time. I asked a pool industry friend to check the sand filter for me - was looking for channeling too - he ended up changing the sand but said afterwards it was ok. (he had already changed it anyway and charged her $275.) I noted even more bubbles in the pump basket and from the jets. I suspected when he dismantled everything he aggravated a suction side air leak that was aerating the water. She had high TA, PH and CH issues when I took over. This can cause cloudiness too.

Looking closer at the plumbing I found a huge crack at a union (a union I saw him using a wrench to tighten! (hand tighten people!)). Called a different friend LOL to help me replace the union. Bubbles vanished. Cloudiness got slightly better within 2 days, but only slightly. Decided then to try the DE trick. Took 1 week of twice a day DE applications to clear the water. The question I still don't have the answer to is would it have cleared in a week without the DE?

Perhaps. I opened a pool last week with a sand filter. Started on Monday, by Thursday could see shallow end bottom by Friday could see Deep end. Water was clear by Sunday. No DE needed.

 

[rain4orla]

Guess I am just frustrated that I am seeing no improvement. I am trying to gather some POP. Just having a tough time with wife (teacher) out of school for summer and daughter chomping at the bit ready to have people over to swim. Just trying to think of all scenarios of why it's not clearing.

Would it be worth it to raise the FC level even more? CYA is now around 35. FC is 20. PH 7.4

 

[bobby32x]

I read somewhere on the internet (possibly wiki) that the reason DE works well with filtration is because of a few reasons, 1 being that it is a form of silica that is high is porosity, meaning it has many holes in it, but the diatoms are very close together so water passes through easy but debris doesn't. another reason it is good as a filter media, is that the diatoms are sharp (coffin like) in shape and easily snag debris as it passes through. I am no expert, just sharing what I read on why it is supposedly a good filter medium...