Welcome to my SWAMP!

[Fancypants]

Purchased a house a couple of months ago, found out from the previous owner that the pool had not been opened in at least 2 seasons. Pool had a mesh safety cover on it.

I then discovered an ECOSYSTEM! The frogs were loud in the back yard, now I know why, they were all living in/around my pool!

Did a check of all the mechanicals, to the best of my ability, sand was bone dry, had some clumps, broke those up as I could. Pump started right up, and I was good to start shocking Monday night (5-20-2013)

Here are a couple of shots from Monday night:

Here are the results after ~24 hours, thanks to my loving wife I was able to start shocking during the week, she checked levels, added chlorine, backwashed, and brushed during the day! I allowed myself 4 hours of sleep between chlorinations from 1-5am. Other than that, the FC/CC levels have been checked every 1-2 hours with brushing.

Here are shots of some of the equipment (which I had no experience with until this week)

Now for the questions:
1.) Any ideas on the model/size of the filter? I haven't been able to find any identifying markers on it yet.

2.) To those who know better than I, do the filter/pump seem to be a good size/fit for my pool?

3.) How high should the sand go in the filter? I have read a few "guidelines" but I am not 100% sure, it looks to be about 1/2 full, there is a line on the inside of the filter, and the sand is filled up to about that line.

4.) The black valve in the image of the plumbing is on the suction side, appears to have the 2 skimmers on one side(right I believe) and the main drain on the other. Any way to know how to adjust the thing? It doesn't seem that well labeled.

5.) When I pull water from the skimmers, I get a ton of air, any ideas on troubleshooting? I have read a few things on here, but am still not sure what to try? Due to this issue, I have the 3 way valve set to main drain only. I know that I asked how to use the valve, I don't 100% understand how the valve works, but I have found a position that seems to disable the skimmers.

6.) I am only getting suction from one of the skimmers, the one in the shallow end. The one on the deep end I get nothin'. I thought about snaking it with my plumbers helper, but when I started, I could feel that the pipe went from PVC to a flexible ribbed type plastic pipe, and I didn't want to puncture the pipe if the spiraled working end of the snake caught it. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this? My idea was to drain the pool to the point that the skimmers were above the water line, then pour a drain cleaner in it?

7.) Normal clean operating pressure appears to be 8-10 psi, assuming my pressure gauge is to be trusted. When I started last night it would go up to 18-20 psi in about 1-2 hours. I have been backwashing every 1-4 hours. Is this to be expected in a pool this dirty? If I backwash, the pressure goes back down to 8-10, if I then brush, by the time I am done, I am between 15-20 psi and I backwash again. I purchased a nice leaf rake today, and wasn't finding a whole lot on the bottom.

8.) When I backwash, the water coming through the little glass bottle thingy sticking out of the side of the multi valve doesn't look THAT murky, is this because the filter is just clogging with algae? Can't really tell how long to backwash for, so I just go about 20-30 seconds. Any suggestions?

9.) The housing for the motor feels hot to the touch, I can stand to press my finger on it for 2-3 seconds, then I have to pull back. Is this OK? Normal? Is my pump going to explode and die? It seems hotter than it should be for someone who has no idea how hot it should be. I can see/feel air coming out of it at one end (I assume for cooling) and it seems to be the same temperature after 12 hours as it does after 1 hour of operation. Still, it seems hotter than I would have thought it would be. Any thoughts are appreciated.

I know that is a lot of questions, but last season I was taking care of a Wal-Mart Intex pool in a box, and the mechanicals were not only more simple, but they were all external and exposed, didn't leave a whole lot to the imagination.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers, and if you made it this far down in the post, thank you for your diligence and determination to help a brother out!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Do you have an estimated gallons on the pool - give dimensions, we can help u determine.

Now for the questions:
1.) Any ideas on the model/size of the filter? I haven't been able to find any identifying markers on it yet.
Please take a pic of the filter from the front, level with it, with a ruler or tape measure to gauge.


2.) To those who know better than I, do the filter/pump seem to be a good size/fit for my pool?

The pump is good - Hayward super pump.

3.) How high should the sand go in the filter? I have read a few "guidelines" but I am not 100% sure, it looks to be about 1/2 full, there is a line on the inside of the filter, and the sand is filled up to about that line.

I'll let other chime in but that sounds right, maybe 2/3?


4.) The black valve in the image of the plumbing is on the suction side, appears to have the 2 skimmers on one side(right I believe) and the main drain on the other. Any way to know how to adjust the thing? It doesn't seem that well labeled.
half way between the 2 skimmers is drawing from both - doesn't appear you can close one over the other, you can close the main and just draw the skimmers and vice versa..


5.) When I pull water from the skimmers, I get a ton of air, any ideas on troubleshooting? I have read a few things on here, but am still not sure what to try? Due to this issue, I have the 3 way valve set to main drain only. I know that I asked how to use the valve, I don't 100% understand how the valve works, but I have found a position that seems to disable the skimmers.
See above. How high is your water level when you see air? In the pic it's high enough that you shouldn't be sucking air, there maybe a leak in the plumbing from the skimmers. Ideally there should be 2 valves, one per skimmer...the fact you are only drawing from the main could also be affecting your PSI. You can mostly guage how dirty the filter is by the return flow. If it's reduced to basically nothing its time to backwash.


6.) I am only getting suction from one of the skimmers, the one in the shallow end. The one on the deep end I get nothin'. I thought about snaking it with my plumbers helper, but when I started, I could feel that the pipe went from PVC to a flexible ribbed type plastic pipe, and I didn't want to puncture the pipe if the spiraled working end of the snake caught it. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this? My idea was to drain the pool to the point that the skimmers were above the water line, then pour a drain cleaner in it?
No drain cleaner. Its possible the ribbed-type pvc collapsed... .


7.) Normal clean operating pressure appears to be 8-10 psi, assuming my pressure gauge is to be trusted. When I started last night it would go up to 18-20 psi in about 1-2 hours. I have been backwashing every 1-4 hours. Is this to be expected in a pool this dirty? If I backwash, the pressure goes back down to 8-10, if I then brush, by the time I am done, I am between 15-20 psi and I backwash again. I purchased a nice leaf rake today, and wasn't finding a whole lot on the bottom.
Yes when filtering a swamp pressure can rise quickly. I would put on recirculate if you can't monitor the pressure...see above regarding your valve setting


8.) When I backwash, the water coming through the little glass bottle thingy sticking out of the side of the multi valve doesn't look THAT murky, is this because the filter is just clogging with algae? Can't really tell how long to backwash for, so I just go about 20-30 seconds. Any suggestions?
Go for a good solid minute or 2.


9.) The housing for the motor feels hot to the touch, I can stand to press my finger on it for 2-3 seconds, then I have to pull back. Is this OK? Normal? Is my pump going to explode and die? It seems hotter than it should be for someone who has no idea how hot it should be. I can see/feel air coming out of it at one end (I assume for cooling) and it seems to be the same temperature after 12 hours as it does after 1 hour of operation. Still, it seems hotter than I would have thought it would be. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Yes it gets hot.


I know that is a lot of questions, but last season I was taking care of a Wal-Mart Intex pool in a box, and the mechanicals were not only more simple, but they were all external and exposed, didn't leave a whole lot to the imagination.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers, and if you made it this far down in the post, thank you for your diligence and determination to help a brother out!

No prob, that's why we're here ;-) Hope this helped

 

[linen]

FPM beat me to the punch :-D ...here is my take:

1.) Any ideas on the model/size of the filter? I haven't been able to find any identifying markers on it yet.

You can measure the circumference with a taylor's tape measure and divid by pi to get the diameter.

2.) To those who know better than I, do the filter/pump seem to be a good size/fit for my pool?

Let us know what the filter diameter is. The pump looks to be a 1 hp uprated single speed Hayward superpump. It is plenty big for your pool. If you have trouble with it in the future, you might want to consider replacing the motor with a 2-speed.

3.) How high should the sand go in the filter? I have read a few "guidelines" but I am not 100% sure, it looks to be about 1/2 full, there is a line on the inside of the filter, and the sand is filled up to about that line.

On that style, typically about 2/3 full. If we can figure out the make/model then you can look at the manufacturers recommendation.

4.) The black valve in the image of the plumbing is on the suction side, appears to have the 2 skimmers on one side(right I believe) and the main drain on the other. Any way to know how to adjust the thing? It doesn't seem that well labeled.

Typically the tab on the opposite side from the handle is the off position, so you would point that at the pipe you do not want flow from. If you go between two pipes with that tab, you will get some flow from each (That is how you have it set in the picture).

5.) When I pull water from the skimmers, I get a ton of air, any ideas on troubleshooting? I have read a few things on here, but am still not sure what to try? Due to this issue, I have the 3 way valve set to main drain only. I know that I asked how to use the valve, I don't 100% understand how the valve works, but I have found a position that seems to disable the skimmers.

That sounds like it could be either too low water level and you are sucking in air, or a stuck skimmer weir door blocking the flow and again causing air to be sucked into the pump.

6.) I am only getting suction from one of the skimmers, the one in the shallow end. The one on the deep end I get nothin'. I thought about snaking it with my plumbers helper, but when I started, I could feel that the pipe went from PVC to a flexible ribbed type plastic pipe, and I didn't want to puncture the pipe if the spiraled working end of the snake caught it. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this? My idea was to drain the pool to the point that the skimmers were above the water line, then pour a drain cleaner in it?

FIrst I would see if you can force water through it with at hose using a "drain king" hose fitting or some other way of sealing it.

7.) Normal clean operating pressure appears to be 8-10 psi, assuming my pressure gauge is to be trusted. When I started last night it would go up to 18-20 psi in about 1-2 hours. I have been backwashing every 1-4 hours. Is this to be expected in a pool this dirty? If I backwash, the pressure goes back down to 8-10, if I then brush, by the time I am done, I am between 15-20 psi and I backwash again. I purchased a nice leaf rake today, and wasn't finding a whole lot on the bottom.

Yes, your pool has a lot of debris, so I would expect the pressure to go up quickly.

8.) When I backwash, the water coming through the little glass bottle thingy sticking out of the side of the multi valve doesn't look THAT murky, is this because the filter is just clogging with algae? Can't really tell how long to backwash for, so I just go about 20-30 seconds. Any suggestions?

You may have to backwash longer before you see really dirty water, although your return to the clean pressure indicates you are clearing the filter correctly.

9.) The housing for the motor feels hot to the touch, I can stand to press my finger on it for 2-3 seconds, then I have to pull back. Is this OK? Normal? Is my pump going to explode and die? It seems hotter than it should be for someone who has no idea how hot it should be. I can see/feel air coming out of it at one end (I assume for cooling) and it seems to be the same temperature after 12 hours as it does after 1 hour of operation. Still, it seems hotter than I would have thought it would be. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Some pumps run hotter than others. That does seem a little hot, but as long as it works, then no problems.

 

[Fancypants]

I am excited to report that between 8pm-11pm (3 hours) I only lost 2ppm FC.

When I started, I had 0 CYA, I added enough to bring it up to 10 so that I could shock with lower FC levels until clear, then I will raise the CYA to recommended levels. I am maintaining 10ppm for my target shock level.

FPM:
Would the point of running in circulate be to keep things in the pool moving while not compromising my pump due to too high PSI?

Linen:
The water level is very high, the skimmers are very full of water when I get air. Could there be a correlation between a compromised pipe underground and the air? (If a collapsed pipe is what is causing the one skimmer not to pull water.) Or are they likely 2 separate issues?

The pool is 24,000 gallons, I will fill in the other mechanical info in my sig when as I have them.

Both, what on the label indicates that it is a Hayward superpump? I ask, because I don't see Hayward anywhere on the label I posted.

Thanks again guys.

 

[linen]

When I started, I had 0 CYA, I added enough to bring it up to 10 so that I could shock with lower FC levels until clear, then I will raise the CYA to recommended levels. I am maintaining 10ppm for my target shock level.

10 ppm cya might be a little low. Generally we recommend raising to ~20 ppm cya for shocking....but for now with your cloudiness, 10 might work. As it gets clearer, then you may want to move it up.

Would the point of running in circulate be to keep things in the pool moving while not compromising my pump due to too high PSI?

Yes, keeps the chemicals mixing and not letting the FC level get low in dead spots.

Could there be a correlation between a compromised pipe underground and the air? (If a collapsed pipe is what is causing the one skimmer not to pull water.) Or are they likely 2 separate issues?

I would guess seperate, but you will have to do some more trouble shooting (like running water down that line from both ends to troubleshoot.

Both, what on the label indicates that it is a Hayward superpump? I ask, because I don't see Hayward anywhere on the label I posted.

The shape of the basket cover.

 

[Richard320]

I see a contender for the Cinderella Award this year...

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

FPM:
Would the point of running in circulate be to keep things in the pool moving while not compromising my pump due to too high PSI?
Yes

Both, what on the label indicates that it is a Hayward superpump? I ask, because I don't see Hayward anywhere on the label I posted.
We just know LOL

Thanks again guys.

 

[Fancypants]

I see a contender for the Cinderella Award this year...

Does using cal-hypo disqualify me? It was the cheapest/oz available chlorine form of chlorine I have been able to find in my area short of buying a 55 gallapon drum of 12.75% liquid.

Also, initial CH reading was 30, so I have some wiggle room there. I plan on switching to liquid after I am done shocking.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

No, it doesn't. LOL that's fine...

 

[Fancypants]

I wish there was some way to handle CH without draining/I wish Cal-Hypo was just Hypo (lol) because at Leslie's the 100lb bucket of 73% (70% guaranteed) is $179.

100lb = 1600oz $179/(.7 * 1600) = $0.160/oz chlorine, and I haven't been able to find anything close to that in liquid form. I know that is oz. weight vs volume, but according to the calculator, cal-hypo is nearly 1:1 in oz:fl oz

 

[linen]

I wish there was some way to handle CH without draining/I wish Cal-Hypo was just Hypo (lol) because at Leslie's the 100lb bucket of 73% (70% guaranteed) is $179.

100lb = 1600oz $179/(.7 * 1600) = $0.160/oz chlorine, and I haven't been able to find anything close to that in liquid form. I know that is oz. weight vs volume, but according to the calculator, cal-hypo is nearly 1:1 in oz:fl oz

I can get 12.5% liquid chlorine for $2.50/gallon (~$0.16/oz NAClO also), so my cost to be equivalent to the quantity of cal-hypo you listed is $175.

What is your CH now?

 

[Fancypants]

I can get 12.5% liquid chlorine for $2.50/gallon (~$0.16/oz NAClO also), so my cost to be equivalent to the quantity of cal-hypo you listed is $175.

What is your CH now?

Where do you get 12.5% for that cheap? I am having a hard time finding it in my area for a decent price.

I haven't checked CH since doing my initial test. Before starting the shock process, it was at 30ppm.

According to the pool calculator, adding 10ppm FC via Cal-Hypo will add 7ppm CH.

So... if my math is correct, I added 21ppm FC all day yesterday, which would have added 14.7ppm CH, so I am likely still < 80ppm CH given the fact that I started shocking Monday night, and have been continuing through this morning.

I could do a calculation for the entire shock process, then go actually test my CH tonight, that could be fun!

 

[linen]

Up here in MN, it is usually that price at Fleetfarm, and sometimes at Menards (even cheaper sometimes there). I realize that does not help you

I haven't checked CH since doing my initial test. Before starting the shock process, it was at 30ppm.

At that level you can use a lot of cal-hypo before you have problems...maybe even the whole 100 lbs.

 

[Fancypants]

According to the calculator, adding 1,600 oz. (100 lbs.) of Cal-Hypo 73% will raise CH by 255 ppm.

I really like the pool chemistry, because it is simple, and fun, and you can see it/the results right in your backyard.

After I am done shocking, I am planning on keeping the remaining Cal-Hypo around in case I have to shock again, or run out of liquid.

I have noticed a trend on the Bleach Prices 2013 thread, it seems as though "Liquid Chlorine" (sodium hypochlorite sold for pool use, typically stronger than "Liquid Bleach") seems to be nearly impossible to find here in the south. None of the pool stores in my area, none of the big box stores (Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot) or even Leslie's carries liquid chlorine. Seems to be a geographically-centric thing. So far the best prices on Liquid Chlorine seem to be NOT in the south.

 

[linen]

So far the best prices on Liquid Chlorine seem to be NOT in the south.

That is crazy. Up here LC is readily available (during the season), yet we can probably handle things like trichlor, and cal-hypo much better (short seasons, draining for winter, cooler water temps, etc.) than you folks down south.

After I am done shocking, I am planning on keeping the remaining Cal-Hypo around in case I have to shock again, or run out of liquid.

I think you have a good handle on the risks, so this plan should work fine.

I really like the pool chemistry, because it is simple, and fun, and you can see it/the results right in your backyard.

Me too

 

[mvbighead]

For what it is worth, I've been getting 6% bleach at Aldi's for $1.29 for a 96 oz jug. I works out to $0.22 per fl ounce CalHypo, which is better than most.

Based on the above's suggestion of Menards, I looked it up and my local Menards should have Liquid Pool Shock at 12.5% for 3.99 for 128oz. A little more costly than Aldi's, but a heckuva a lot more convenient (1 jug for every 2 from Aldi roughly).

 

[ddas]

I'm a newbie so don't have any answers for you, but just wanted to register that I'm following this thread like an educational adventure story. Can't wait to see how it develops, and please post updates (with pics!) as you start to make progress!

 

[joshs2000ss]

I'm in to see how this turns out at well. Have you continued netting/scooping out from the deep end? Any large chunks you can remove will help speed up the process of getting the pool swim ready.

 

[Fancypants]

Yesterday was sunny and I lost more FC due to sunlight than I would have cared for so I put a sock with more CYA in the one skimmer that works.

I am also happy to report that my overnight FC loss was only 1.5ppm last night!

I didn't take any pictures because the visual change wasn't much, most of the algae "looks" dead, just gotta get it all dead and filtered out.

I am running the skimmer because it does a heck of a good job of taking surface debris out of the water (like it should), but I do have to ask, does the air in the lines effect the filters effectiveness? I am not sure, that is why I am asking.

Also, is it weird that I only get bubbles out of one of my returns? I have 2 returns that run at all times, and a 3rd that I can turn on with a pressure side booster pump for the Polaris robot, yet only 1 has air bubbles that come out, and again, that is only when I am using the skimmer.

 

[Fancypants]

I'm in to see how this turns out at well. Have you continued netting/scooping out from the deep end? Any large chunks you can remove will help speed up the process of getting the pool swim ready.

Josh, I try, but I don't get much out, which I hope is a good thing. Since I have never seen the bottom/sides of the pool, I hope that when the net gets caught on something it is either stairs, or the main drain, and not... I don't know... a turtle or something.

I am also brushing as often as possible, usually 3-4 times a day, and the one skimmer that works does a really good job of keeping things off of the surface of the water.

I got one of these stingray leaf rakes, if it can pick up a dime off of the bottom of the pool as advertised, then I would hope it could get all of my debris. I was advised not to get a "cheap" net, so I looked for a good one.