Tired and in Tears... Chemical blocks and kids

[chem geek]

That's fairly low, but does indicate that you probably had a higher amount earlier. It will take around 2-3 ppm FC to get rid of that relatively small amount (0.25 ppm) of ammonia, so you're almost there! If you've also got measurable CC, then it will take a little more than half that amount to get rid of it as well.

I find it surprising that even 15 kids could urinate enough in a 22,000 gallon pool to have it consume this much chlorine (one quart of urine would take around 2 ppm FC in your pool volume). I think that when you initially opened the pool you had ammonia (from degradation of CYA over the winter) which you then mostly took care of (with lots of chlorine) and then the kids came and added more (mostly urea) into the pool and you are now taking care of that. Urea can take longer to get rid of than ammonia, perhaps taking 1-2 days at shock level compared to just hours for ammonia.

As Jason said, keep your chlorine level up at shock level until three things occur: 1) the pool becomes crystal clear, 2) you measure minimal (<= 1 ppm) drop in FC overnight and 3) you measure minimal (<= 0.5 ppm) CC.

Richard

 

[tiffains4]

Honestly Richard we have anywhere to 6 -18 kids in our pool all the time ,and always have for years ,so I do not think this is because of them. I think that chemlawn got fertilizer in it somehow. Where he does his job is three feet away from the pool with a mess cover... Anyway Richard I see no movement at all...Not one bit of change and i am spending alot on money and time for not even a 0.1 of fc .. So i am not seeing that i am almost there.. Sorry just frustrated.

 

[chem geek]

I'm sorry you are getting frustrated. I assume that the chlorine is not only not holding during the day, but is also not holding overnight either, right? Did you try a bucket test to see what the chlorine demand is? If you take a large bucket (say, 2 or more gallons) of pool water, then add teaspoons of 6% bleach to it until it registers Free Chlorine (FC). That will give you some idea of how much chlorine it will take before the pool starts to keep chlorine. One teaspoon of 6% bleach in 2 gallons is 40 ppm FC.

Now your fertilizer theory is a good one. If fertilizer got into the pool, then the nitrate and phosphate levels could be extraordinarily high. Though it's the last thing to check when all else fails, I'd say you're at that point, so you can have your water tested for phosphates and if it's really really high (probably > 3000 ppb), then that would explain a lot. In that case, a phosphate remover could be used, though unfortunately that's very expensive, but the only other alternative would be drain/refill of the water and somehow keeping your ChemLawn guy from fertilizing your pool.

Richard

 

[tiffains4]

Hey Richard, I have put roughly around 45 gallons of bleach in the pool in the last several days i just added about 5 more and five earlier so in the morning i will check and see.. I have drained it down to bottom of step twice and i would of gone all the way down but they said it could damage my liner even with the vac.. The pool company are friends of ours but even they didnt know what to tell us(but were not happy about us coming here) Anyway the older couple that has it before them had it for 25 years and she would go to all the water, "chemical school" kinda things that all of you have probaly done and anyway what do you think about this ,now this women is very fruggle with money but she suggested that i switch to Bromine until i get it under control then i could switch back.. and at which time i am going to swg.. Richard i really dont know if at this point it could hurt i am spending money and alot of it anyway.. What is your opinion ?

 

[JasonLion]

Bromine is unlikely to help and will cause significant complications.

You should do a bucket test to see how much bleach it takes to be able to hold a FC level. Get a 5 gallon bucket and fill it mostly full of pool water. Then add 1 oz of 6% bleach, mix, wait half an hour, measure the FC level. If the FC level is below 10 then add another oz of bleach, wait, test, and so on. If it holds a FC level after the first oz then start over with a fresh bucket of pool water and repeat the test by teaspoons instead of oz. If you post the results we can give you an estimate of how much bleach it will take to clear up the pool.

 

[tiffains4]

When you say" measure "the fc you mean test right ? Is there another way to test for fc becasue i dont have alot of fc testing solution left..

 

[tiffains4]

Okay there are alot of post that are not on here and should be.. The block broke . I had to go to the pool store to get alk. because EVERYONE is out of baking soda. Let them go ahead and test my water and there's said

TC 4.8
FC 3.9
PH 7
TA 105
So yesturday my TF 100 test said FC 7 CC 0 PH 7 I cant find the paper my results were on so that is by memory . I really dont know where to go from here now that its broke..


Here's todays

PH 7.4
CC 3
FC 6
TA 280 very unsure about this because i am not sure if i am suppose to stop and light red(which looks light pink) or at medium or deep deep red so this could be completly off.. I went to medium not too dark and not too light..


Dont know where to go from here but my gut is telling me to pour more bleach in.. The numbers have already changed from yesturday.

 

[Guest]

My suggestion is to contact Duraliegh about buying another color comparator (I assume that is what you mean by 'block'). How did it break? They are pretty sturdy so it must have been dropped on a hard surface or otherwise abused.
As far as the missing posts I KNOW you could not have missed the announcements about the upgrade and how posts made during the upgrade period would disappear and it is the poster's responsibility to make backups of anything they wanted to repost after the upgrade. You did read the first page before you got into the forum, didn't you? It was IMPOSSIBLE to enter the forum without reading the announcement about the upgrade because it was the default page. Also the announcement was at the top of the forum index!

 

[Titanium]

Here are all (or at least most) of the missing posts from the blackout period. Knowing the history of this thread, I had a feeling this issue would present itself.

chem geek said on: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:47 am

I'm not sure which test kit you have. If you have the TF100, then you can use the OTO "shades of yellow" test for chlorine since you just want to see, for the bucket test, at what point chlorine starts to hold.

Since you say "FC testing solution", are you referring to the titrating drops that you count to make the sample clear after you added the powder that made it turn pink/red (this is the FAS-DPD chlorine test).

If you've been using a standard DPD chlorine test where you look at the intensity of pink/red color, then that test bleaches out above an FC of 10 ppm making you think there isn't any chlorine when in fact there is a lot.

Richard

tiffains4 said on: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:34 am

Richard I have the TF100 and i have been testing for free chlorine. I was wrong about running out of the solution ,its cya testing i will be out of soon. So when you say OTO are you reffereing to the dropper with chlorine on one side and ph on the other (pink and yellow) Not sure of all the lingo .Tell me what OTO is and I can use it right ?

_________________
Tiffani Ainsworth

JasonLion said on: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:15 am

The OTO chlorine test is in the blue box, add drops to turn the sample yellow and compare to a color standard. The other side of the color comparator is for measuring PH.

If you use the OTO chlorine test for the bucket test there is a risk of detecting CC as a high chlorine level. (The OTO test measures TC, which is FC plus CC.) You want to be sure your are maintaining a FC level, so the full FAS-DPD test, add a powder and count drops to turn the water from pink to clear, is recommended.

I don't recommend it, but in a pinch, you can use the OTO chlorine test by watching how the color changes in the first several seconds after you add drops. If the color matches the color for 5 or is orange or red right at the start, you have a high FC level. After a number of seconds the color will start shifting to indicate the TC level, but shows FC right at the start.

tiffains4 said on: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:56 pm

Well went to my friend at pool store had to get alk. because we have checked three towns now are all out. Anyway wanted to see what her test said and there is light at the end of this tunnel.. there test said FC is 3.9 and TC is 4.8 . My friend told me that she would of done the same thing with the bleach. Okay what do i do next.. Now also keep in mind I have about 50 people coming to my house on friday and 20 are kids.. How is this going to work..

My test FC 7
CC 0

I didnt test anything else, i know that my alk was very low so added today will test later..

Hey where do i need to go from here
________________
Tiffani Ainsworth

waterbear said: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:13 pm

You do realize that Alkalinity increaser is just plain baking soda and it's MUCH less expensive at Walmart or the grocery store?
_______________
TFP Moderator

Titanium said on: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:37 pm

Tiffani,

Now I'm all confused.

Quote:
Well went to my friend at pool store had to get alk......I didnt test anything else, i know that my alk was very low so added today"

I have never seen you post a "very low" TA reading in any of your posts. In fact, the last TA test reading that you posted actually showed HIGH levels and not LOW levels?!?

Titanium

 

[tiffains4]

Okay I do remember reading that now.. What i meant about the block broke was the chlorine. They were calling it a chlorine block or demand and anyway my TF 100 is doing great ,I love it, that made me laugh.. What do you want me to do now? I think were almost there now,I am seeing some light.. Did any of you see the new test numbers I posted today? Also interesting thing I didnt mention I am from Georgia and I dont know if your aware of the drought we have been in (getting better) but people here are flooded with pool problems.Everywhere we go,every store someone is having problems with there water.Even the pool store told us they have been flooded with this problem.Anyway thought that was also interesting. Thank you and I will just wait to here back.. Its fun to see who I get help from .. Thank you all so much.. Tiffani

 

[chem geek]

Congratulations on the chlorine finally holding. For the TA test, you count drops until it turns from green to red -- if it looks like it is still changing in color (hue), count that drop. Usually the transition is pretty clear, sometimes from green to some intermediate grayish to red and you count the drops until and including that red. This link from Taylor shows some color transitions that might be helpful.

If your TA is truly as high as 280, then that's high and there was no reason for you to get Alkalinity Up (or Baking Soda). Even with the pool store's number of 105, that isn't too low. You could have a TA of 80 and do just fine. So if your TA is truly high, then you may find a strong tendency for the pH to rise in the pool.

As far as the chlorine level goes, I forget what your CYA level was but you should target an FC that is around 10% of your CYA level and don't let it drop below 7.5% of the CYA level.

Richard

 

[randytsuch]

I think the CYA level is 30, so target FC level should be 3, never lower than 2 unless you have a SWG. Recommended range of from 2-6 from the Pool calculator

Randy

 

[piku]

Re:

Okay after doing the test a second time I can see where my numbers might have been of from a drop or two,I learned that the drops can come out fast..


Ph-7.2
Cya-30
Ta-200
Fc-4
Cc- 5
Ch-120

I really dont see how the cc can be right when I did a dropper test to while i was in there and I couldnt get a hint of yellow.. I added 12 gallons of bleach last night and it doesnt look like I did anything.. Any way all the bleach is gone at walmart(we bought it all last night) and they said there were alot of people in town having this problem.. Anyway I have to have this birthday party this weekend what do you want me to do next..

This comment right here I think is key to diagnosing ammonia. When I was fighting ammonia a DPD or FAS-DPD test would immediately indicate high levels of CC. That CC - in whatever way it is different - however would NOT register on the OTO test. Very strange but this "rare" problem seems to be becoming a lot less rare. We've all seen antibiotic resistant bacteria. Maybe there is more CYA eating bacteria joining our environment.

 

[piku]

Re:

Results of ammonia is 0.25 dont know wha that means.. Keep pouring in the bleach and its not working..

That means you're almost done. Your pool can have *no* ammonia and hold an FC level. They are mutually exclusive.

 

[tiffains4]

Hey guys pool is doing great i cannot believe how you all turned it around like that. Looking back i feel like an idiot now that i know what i know. Still got alot to learn. Am switching to saltwater soon if you have any advise please advise away..Thank you.. OH you know how al. ch all those have to be in there certain range where do oyu think I need to keep the tc and fc .. thank you

 

[JasonLion]

CC should be 0.5 or lower. FC depends on your CYA level, see this chart.

 

[piku]

Hey all, I figured I'd threadjack onto this one of many "can't hold chlorine" threads. My pool is now holding an FC level. Has 0PPM CC and consumes around 1 gallon of 6% per day (3ppm FC). The level holds firm overnight so .. Hooray. The consumption is a little higher than I'd like but it is what it is.