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Thread: Is there a way to increase suction for a cleaner?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Is there a way to increase suction for a cleaner?

    Hello,

    I just prought a pool cleaner and am trying to install it but it looks like the pressure is too low for it to work properly. I tried closing off the one valve I have at the equipment to increase the pressure, but it still doesn't look like enough pressure.

    Is there anything else I can do to increase the pressure?

    Thanks!
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  2. Back To Top    #2
    mas985's Avatar
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    Since you are talking about increasing pressure, I assume that your cleaner is a pressure side cleaner. Is this correct?

    If you have a suction side cleaner, you will want to reduce filter pressure. If you have a pressure side cleaner, you will want to increase pressure.

    Also, it would be helpful to know a lot more about your set up. Equipment, plumbing size and configuration, etc.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Since you are talking about increasing pressure, I assume that your cleaner is a pressure side cleaner. Is this correct?

    If you have a suction side cleaner, you will want to reduce filter pressure. If you have a pressure side cleaner, you will want to increase pressure.

    Also, it would be helpful to know a lot more about your set up. Equipment, plumbing size and configuration, etc.
    Thank you for answering...

    No, it's a suction side cleaner, a Hayward Pool Vac Ultra

    I added the stats in my signature. I measured the pool plumbing, the pipes look to be 2" wide

    The pressure on the sand filter is currently reading 20. The guage was just replaced recently as the old one never worked so I don't know what the regular setting should be.

    Should I backwash to increase the pressure for the pool vac?

    Thanks
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  4. Back To Top    #4
    mas985's Avatar
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    Yes, backwashing will help the suction side. For a suction side cleaner, you want the lowest amount of filter pressure possible. Backwashing will help but you want to make sure all of the returns are open and the valves are set such that the pressure on the filter is at the lowest point. On the suction side, you want to restrict any port that is not the cleaner. So if you are running other skimmers at the same time as the cleaner, there will be less suction for the cleaner.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Yes, backwashing will help the suction side. For a suction side cleaner, you want the lowest amount of filter pressure possible. Backwasking will help but you want to make sure all of the returns are open and the valves are set such that the pressure on the filter is at the lowest point. On the suction side, you want to restrict any port that is not the cleaner. So if you are running other skimmers at the same time as the cleaner, there will be less suction for the cleaner.
    OK Thanks!

    I brought a Vac-Mate as well. I only have 1 skimmer but it has 2 holes, 1 to the main drain. I didn't think the main drain was working but I'll block that port anyway.

    I'm going to go to the store to get a longer backwash hose and try these 2 things.

    Thanks, i'll let you know how it goes!
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Yes, backwashing will help the suction side. For a suction side cleaner, you want the lowest amount of filter pressure possible. Backwashing will help but you want to make sure all of the returns are open and the valves are set such that the pressure on the filter is at the lowest point. On the suction side, you want to restrict any port that is not the cleaner. So if you are running other skimmers at the same time as the cleaner, there will be less suction for the cleaner.
    I was able to backwash, and I closed off the other port.

    I also have a Vac-mate...which I adjusted according to the included pressure gage included with the cleaner.

    The cleaner works for about 5 minutes or so and then stops, it's almost like it loses just enough pressure to stop.

    I'm not sure where this would point to. At first I checked the cleaner and there were a coupe of big rocks stuck in it which I removed, but still the same thing happens.

    And other ideas?

    Thanks!
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  7. Back To Top    #7
    mas985's Avatar
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    You may need to disassemble the cleaner as sometimes debris gets in the gears and forces it to stop. This is more of a problem for suction cleaners than for pressure cleaners.

    Also, how does the other cleaner work?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    You may need to disassemble the cleaner as sometimes debris gets in the gears and forces it to stop. This is more of a problem for suction cleaners than for pressure cleaners.

    Also, how does the other cleaner work?
    I'm going to check the cleaner again, to make sure I got all the stuff out of it.

    No, this is a vac-mate:

    http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-702/P ... Detail.bok
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  9. Back To Top    #9
    mas985's Avatar
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    Got it. That could be the problem. It looks like it might restrict the suction some. Does the cleaner run fine without it or do you have to use that?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Got it. That could be the problem. It looks like it might restrict the suction some. Does the cleaner run fine without it or do you have to use that?
    I haven't tried that yet, maybe I should to make sure it will work just fine.


    Let me try that, if so then I gues i'll just have to leave in the regular skimmer and then conect the vaccuum when necessary.
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Very Strange

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Got it. That could be the problem. It looks like it might restrict the suction some. Does the cleaner run fine without it or do you have to use that?
    If I plug the vac directly into the skimmer, it works for about 5 mins and then stops. it's almost like it loses pressure somehow

    I am throughly confused and about ready to give up

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks!
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  12. Back To Top    #12
    mas985's Avatar
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    Have you taken apart the cleaner to make sure that it is free of debris? No leaves, rocks etc. stuck anywhere in the gears. The cleaner is behaving as though there may be something stuck in it.

    Also, make sure you have emptied the pump basket and skimmer baskets.

    Otherwise, the only thing left I can think of is that you may have something stuck in the suction pipe. A drain king can be used to clear it out if that is the case.

    A 1 1/2 HP pump should be more than enough power to run a suction cleaner. I have a 1 HP pump and I can run my cleaner, two skimmers and the main drain at the same time. Although the other stuff is restricted somewhat to increase the suction to the cleaner.

    One more thing, what size is your plumbing pipe?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Have you taken apart the cleaner to make sure that it is free of debris? No leaves, rocks etc. stuck anywhere in the gears. The cleaner is behaving as though there may be something stuck in it.

    Also, make sure you have emptied the pump basket and skimmer baskets.

    Otherwise, the only thing left I can think of is that you may have something stuck in the suction pipe. A drain king can be used to clear it out if that is the case.

    A 1 1/2 HP pump should be more than enough power to run a suction cleaner. I have a 1 HP pump and I can run my cleaner, two skimmers and the main drain at the same time. Although the other stuff is restricted somewhat to increase the suction to the cleaner.

    One more thing, what size is your plumbing pipe?
    hey, Thanks for helping me troubleshoot!:

    Yes, I took the cleaner out of the water, checked the bottom and the turbine to make sure it rotated properly. I can also move the neck of the cleaner both left & right with no problems.

    I checked the pump basket again, it's pretty empty. Maybe I should look at a drain king. It seems like when I connect the vaccuum the pressure on the filter goes down to nearly 0 then comes back up slowly, just like if the pump basket is full.

    My plumbing size is 2"
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

  14. Back To Top    #14
    mas985's Avatar
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    Also, check the vacuum hose. That could be blocked too.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Also, check the vacuum hose. That could be blocked too.
    Mas,

    thanks a lot for your help. I took the cleaner apart 1 more time. There was a small rock that loggged itself in there somehow, but not in the turbine. I had to shake a LOT of times to get it out. There is all sorts of **** in my pool since I had my sand filter changed and gravel added to my backyard. I tried to take out all the oarge rocks by hand to give the cleaner a helping hand

    Anyway, it has stopped once more but that was because it tried to pick up something I missed that was pretty large.

    So far so good, its working well...now I know exactly what to look for!


    I'll hook up the vac-mate later this week so I can have both skimming and vaccumming without too much trouble.

    Thanks again for your help!
    Thanks again for
    14,000 Gal. IG Plaster
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter W/ 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward Pool Vav Ultra

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