AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

I don't think it'll make a big difference black side up.

Regarding the Permasalt system - to each their own, but here at TFP we advocate maintaining your pool by learning how to test your water and then use the test results to maintain your water balance using common chemicals found at your grocery store (for the most part). There is a definite relationship between the amount of stabilizer (cyanuric acid, or CYA) in your water and the amount of chlorine needed to properly sanitize your pool. As the stabilizer level goes up, so does the amount of free chlorine needed. Unfortunately, most low chlorine systems don't take this relationship into account, and as a result you underchlorinate your pool. Since the system is underchlorinating the pool, it must use minerals (copper and silver) as an algaecide, and usually weekly doses of some type of oxidizer to burn off combined chloramines. This might keep the water clear, but doesn't keep it sanitary. I find that is one item we tend to overlook in our zeal for killing or preventing algae - killing and preventing algae isn't the only thing that chlorine does. It also kills pathogens and bacteria in the water as well.

I used to have the Aquasmarte system that was part of the pool package I bought from Watson's. I dutifully changed bacpac's, mineral cartridges, and dumped a weekly dose of MPS in the pool. Everything worked great (or so I thought) until the third or fourth year - then I fought the pool all summer long. I found this forum, read through it, and it all made sense. I've since switched to a saltwater chlorine generator for my pool, and the only thing I've added to my pool this summer was some salt, some CYA, and some borax initially, and some muriatic acid later on when my pH crept up a bit. That's it. Nothing added weekly, no shocking, nada. My SWCG generates the chlorine I need.

As I said earlier, to each their own. I hope that the permasalt system continues to work for you. Unfortunately, given that it's low chlorine mineral system, I can't recommend it's use to forum members.
 
Thank you MikeInTn,

I wasn't asking anyone to recommend the Perma Salt System or even advocating its use; just answering the OP. If I have any problems with this system, I will be certain to post back and ask the experts...but so far so good. :)
 
This will be the third year that I have been using the Permasalt system and it has worked great. No hassle. Last year I used a regular shock and clarifier every two weeks instead of the Permasalt brand and it worked just as good and a lot cheaper too. I have found a replacement chamber on ebay $100.00 cheaper than Watson's http://stores.ebay.com/Specialty-Pool-Products . Look up Ionizer. It looks like the same one. I will let you know. I am going to replace the Preperate with regular pool salt this year.
 
myvols2002 said:
This will be the third year that I have been using the Permasalt system and it has worked great. No hassle. Last year I used a regular shock and clarifier every two weeks instead of the Permasalt brand and it worked just as good and a lot cheaper too. I have found a replacement chamber on ebay $100.00 cheaper than Watson's http://stores.ebay.com/Specialty-Pool-Products . Look up Ionizer. It looks like the same one. I will let you know. I am going to replace the Preperate with regular pool salt this year.
Welcome to the forum. :)

Specialty Pool Products (SPP) may have a competitive price on this item but in general their merchandise is expensive, sometimes priced well above MSRP. I will say that the shipping and handling charges are reasonable and they appear to be one of the few US based internet retail suppliers that ship testing products internationally. If true, they might be a good source of test kits and refills for members in Mexico and other locations.

Mineral sanitizing systems have been well-covered on the forum so I would enourage anyone considering these to read this thread from the top and then to perform a Google search for other discussions on this topic within TFP.
 
Adding on (but trying not to pile on) to what's been said, I just finished the "pool school" documents for permasalt. It is filled with partially true statements and completely ignores some very critical factors of pool maintenance. For example, the CYA/chlorine relationship is completely ignored. Their discussion of filters is pretty bogus, too.

Anyway, to those of you who are successful with permasalt, we all know there is more than one way to skin a cat and I'm happy it is working for you.

The methods taught here are a little simpler, certainly more based on science, and, importantly, should be genuinely less expensive. As polyvue has noted, there are lots of discussions about mineral based sanitizers within the forum if anyone cares to read further.
 
myvols2002 said:
This will be the third year that I have been using the Permasalt system and it has worked great. No hassle. Last year I used a regular shock and clarifier every two weeks instead of the Permasalt brand and it worked just as good and a lot cheaper too. I have found a replacement chamber on ebay $100.00 cheaper than Watson's http://stores.ebay.com/Specialty-Pool-Products . Look up Ionizer. It looks like the same one. I will let you know. I am going to replace the Preperate with regular pool salt this year.


I just received my replacement chamber and it is the same as sold at Watson's but $100.00 cheaper.
 
duraleigh,

Then you obviously missed this part:

Activate: Activate is a combination of DiChlor and Oxone. These two products are
the most popular “shocks” available on the market. Activate is the only shock that
actually blends these two products for their maximum effectiveness. DiChlor is a
very strong, fast acting, but short lived bacteria-stat. By only adding it only every 2
weeks, all of the side effects of chlorine use are eliminated. The oxone is an extremely
powerful oxidizing agent that strips away chloramines and other contaminants
killed by the DiChlor. This Blend of DiChlor and Oxone is so effective and powerful, it
is only necessary every two weeks.

And btw, the documents you say you just reviewed, are not ALL of the documents but rather a general overview. I have the actual documentation from the company who makes the Permasalt System and, yes, it clearly defines everything you need to know which was provided by Watsons. I,myself, prefer not to go on the "cheap". Additionally, I receive a 10% on chemicals throughout the season and an additional 10% when the season begins.
 
Duraleigh et al,
I don't know if this helps anyone help Jill figure out what this thing is and what it does, but I found a link: http://www.familyleisure.com/Pool-Suppl ... t-Klairate

...basic directions but it looks like it does add Copper to the water...Much like a pool frog or N2 system...

Quote from third party web site removed. Please visit the link above if you want to see the full text. JasonLion

Many of us have had problems with Copper systems, but these were just basic cartridges and we had no control over the level of copper put into pool...This seems to allow you to control it to a certain extent...HOpe this was helpful
 
From the video "This is a low chlor system. In fact there is so little chlorine in there that it is technically a non-chlorine system".

All swimming pool sanitation systems in the US must include a residual level of an approved sanitizer (Chlorine, Bromine, or Baquacil in the US) to be safe for swimming. The PermaSalt system adds chlorine once every two weeks. After a couple of days, the chlorine is gone, and there is no longer any residual sanitizer and the pool is not safe.

The PermaSalt system, despite it's name, is copper based. Copper levels that are effective against algae are high enough to stain the pool and turn blond hair green. Depending on how you set the dial, you either aren't using enough copper or you are going to get stains the first moment the PH goes up slightly.

There are constantly new copper/silver systems appearing, frequently making false or misleading claims. You should avoid all of them. If they use chlorine, bromine, or baquacil then why bother having copper? Chlorine, bromine, or baquacil alone is fine (though I strongly prefer chlorine). If they don't use chlorine, ie don't maintain a chlorine, bromine, or baquacil residual then they are not safe.
 

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JasonLion said:
From the video "This is a low chlor system. In fact there is so little chlorine in there that it is technically a non-chlorine system".

All swimming pool sanitation systems in the US must include a residual level of an approved sanitizer (Chlorine, Bromine, or Baquacil in the US) to be safe for swimming. The PermaSalt system adds chlorine once every two weeks. After a couple of days, the chlorine is gone, and there is no longer any residual sanitizer and the pool is not safe.

The PermaSalt system, despite it's name, is copper based. Copper levels that are effective against algae are high enough to stain the pool and turn blond hair green. Depending on how you set the dial, you either aren't using enough copper or you are going to get stains the first moment the PH goes up slightly.

There are constantly new copper/silver systems appearing, frequently making false or misleading claims. You should avoid all of them. If they use chlorine, bromine, or baquacil then why bother having copper? Chlorine, bromine, or baquacil alone is fine (though I strongly prefer chlorine). If they don't use chlorine, ie don't maintain a chlorine, bromine, or baquacil residual then they are not safe.

Jason,
THat is exactly why I got rid of my Nature 2 N2 system. It added minerals via a cartridge that had to be purchased new each season to the tune of $90-100...After getting advice from poolmom and others I just took it off. I spend around $75 to $100 per season using BBB method...so why would anyone want a system that seems to (from my link posted in previous post) have all these additives and cause you to be putting things into your pool(copper and silver) that you don't really need. And a much greater cost. They sell you on the fact that it is easier to manage your pool...Well I have said it 100 times...what could be easier than taking five minutes a day to test your water and add Chlorine if needed. If you keep up on that you wont have problems...I have had pool now going on third season and not a problem...And I have not spent more than $100 per season on any chemicals. I don't know if the perma salt system ends up being any different, but it sure doesn't sound like it does...
 
I have a Perma Salt system and I love it. While I understand what you are stating about the sanitation side of this system, I also read your pool myths. I have two issues with chlorine. First of all, in standard swimming pool amounts, my skin has a severe reaction to it. It also lightens my hair, and with any copper in the water, it turns green. My blonde hair has never turned green in all the years I have has this Perma Salt system. No one has never gotten sick in my pool, my skin feels wonderful, and it is crystal clear. Chlorine also turns my eyes red, in any pool I go to, properly maintained or not.

I do not wish to use any more chlorine than it used with the Perma Salt system. I have tried and it is too harsh. I am new to your site, and I will read on. But a fan of chlorine I am not.
 
Fishman35 said:
I have a Perma Salt system and I love it. While I understand what you are stating about the sanitation side of this system, I also read your pool myths. I have two issues with chlorine. First of all, in standard swimming pool amounts, my skin has a severe reaction to it. It also lightens my hair, and with any copper in the water, it turns green. My blonde hair has never turned green in all the years I have has this Perma Salt system. No one has never gotten sick in my pool, my skin feels wonderful, and it is crystal clear. Chlorine also turns my eyes red, in any pool I go to, properly maintained or not.

I do not wish to use any more chlorine than it used with the Perma Salt system. I have tried and it is too harsh. I am new to your site, and I will read on. But a fan of chlorine I am not.

Red eyes, skin sensitivity and hair issues are not from the chlorine itself - but from improper water chemistry (the water is not properly balanced or sanitized.) Many people blame these problems on the chlorine when in reality it is likely the PH is off which irritates the eyes, or there are CC's in the water which can cause eye and skin irritation - this is not the chlorine but a byproduct of disinfection and usually means there is NOT ENOUGH chlorine in the water to oxidize the CCs as they have formed. The green hair is from copper - either copper leaching from metal equipment or from the addition to the water of copper-based mineral products and algaecides, often by the pool owner/operator.

Not to sound judgmental - but do you test every pool you go to, with a drop based test kit, to see if it is in fact, properly maintained? Because you can't tell by looking at it. A pool can have perfectly clear water and have 0-1 Fc and a PH of 7.0 which would absolutely cause the symptoms you describe.

If my family visited the home and the pool was a Permasalt pool, I would not allow my family to swim in it.
 
Kathi52 said:
duraleigh,

Then you obviously missed this part:

Activate: Activate is a combination of DiChlor and Oxone. These two products are
the most popular “shocks” available on the market. Activate is the only shock that
actually blends these two products for their maximum effectiveness.
DiChlor is a
very strong, fast acting, but short lived bacteria-stat. By only adding it only every 2
weeks, all of the side effects of chlorine use are eliminated. The oxone is an extremely
powerful oxidizing agent that strips away chloramines and other contaminants
killed by the DiChlor. This Blend of DiChlor and Oxone is so effective and powerful, it
is only necessary every two weeks.
FWIW, "shock" is not a product. . .

I see that you are a fan of the permasalt system, and I'm glad it works for you. One thing I've learned in my short time here is that the majority of TFP members are diligent about water testing and also diligent about not adding things to your pool that aren't 100% necessary. The longer you stick around here, the more you'll learn about that pool of yours, and might even save a little money in the process.
 
Kathi52 said:
duraleigh,

Then you obviously missed this part:

Activate: Activate is a combination of DiChlor and Oxone. These two products are
the most popular “shocks” available on the market. Activate is the only shock that
actually blends these two products for their maximum effectiveness. DiChlor is a
very strong, fast acting, but short lived bacteria-stat. By only adding it only every 2
weeks, all of the side effects of chlorine use are eliminated. The oxone is an extremely
powerful oxidizing agent that strips away chloramines and other contaminants
killed by the DiChlor. This Blend of DiChlor and Oxone is so effective and powerful, it
is only necessary every two weeks.

And btw, the documents you say you just reviewed, are not ALL of the documents but rather a general overview. I have the actual documentation from the company who makes the Permasalt System and, yes, it clearly defines everything you need to know which was provided by Watsons. I,myself, prefer not to go on the "cheap". Additionally, I receive a 10% on chemicals throughout the season and an additional 10% when the season begins.


I gotta ask...how much do you spend on your perma salt system per season? I spend about 30 dollars a month on the liquid chlorine I get from the pool store...12.5%...that is about 90 bucks for the season...So far this year...I have spent a grand total of 22 dollars to balance my water upon opening. That was for a small bucket of dichlor tablets and two boxes of Borax...my water is perfectly balanced at FC 5-7 ppm, NO CCs, pH is at 7.5, and TA is at 90 and CH is 130.
CYA is around 30 right now and I need to add some. But I have have some so I don't need to buy any...So I wonder how much does the 10% discount save you at the start of the season...Do you spend $25 or less to start your season? I am not saying this Perma Salt system isn't any good...but I know exactly what is going into my pool. Do you?
 
Fishman35 said:
I have a Perma Salt system and I love it. While I understand what you are stating about the sanitation side of this system, I also read your pool myths. I have two issues with chlorine. First of all, in standard swimming pool amounts, my skin has a severe reaction to it. It also lightens my hair, and with any copper in the water, it turns green. My blonde hair has never turned green in all the years I have has this Perma Salt system. No one has never gotten sick in my pool, my skin feels wonderful, and it is crystal clear. Chlorine also turns my eyes red, in any pool I go to, properly maintained or not.

I do not wish to use any more chlorine than it used with the Perma Salt system. I have tried and it is too harsh. I am new to your site, and I will read on. But a fan of chlorine I am not.


I was in my pool last weekend...accidentally of course...but I had to dive to the bottom several times without goggles...while my chlorine was running about 9 ppm and the bottom of my pool is covered with dead maple blossoms, My eyes didn't sting at all...I was picking dichlor pucks off of the bottom. Amazing isn't it...my FC was 9 ppm and my eyes didn't sting at all. I have never been able to swim in public pools as they irritate my eyes...Yet in my own pool I hardly ever use the goggles unless I am checking the liner for leaks...My eyes are wide open, and It is because I use chlorine and I don't let it get out of control. My pH is always at 7.4 to 7.8, and my TA is always at 70-90 sometimes it gets to 100.

But I have never ever had anyone complain about their eyes burning...Infact...My young niece was swimming at my house last August, when the weather was really hot...My FC was running about 7-8. She was telling her mom that she went under water with out her goggles and her eyes were open...My sister in Law told me she never did that because at the club pool where they belong her eyes always burn. So I want to debug the myth that an non chlorine system is better for your eyes. As my case relates...running chloring from 3-9 does not hurt the eyes in one bit.

I understand that people may like the care free nature of a perma salt system or a pool frog or an N2 system...but what I would have paid to replace the cartridge on my N2 for the start of the second season...I spent all summper long on liquid chlorine and pool toys!
 
Because I haven't posted in awhile I will just state that I opened my pool (and yes have the Perma Salt System) in May. It was sparkling clean with just a tad bit of dirt on the bottom. The alkilinity was high but always is when first opening. It was easily remedied and I went from there. I have not had ANY problems since opening; cya, ph, alkilinity all testing just fine. I will say it is expensive on start up but most people who have this system realize that. So, if you can't afford this system, then by all means go with something else. I am with Fishman on this because chlorine is too harsh for me as well. My best friend has a chlorine pool and is constantly buying chemicals. That is something I don't have to do. I just buy what I need for the season and that's it...every two weeks. The nice thing is...I have never had to battle with algea or any discoloration. And another thing...my cartridge lasts all summer long. In any case, so far so good! Many people have commented on how good their skin feels, no stinging or red eyes and how clear the water is. And, no, no one has gotten sick LOL! Last but not least, it is worth it to me even if it may be more expensive, not to have to battle with the issues I see so many posting here. And I don't purchase a lot of pool toys since my child is grown and gone. "I" use my pool more for aqua therapy which is why we purchased it in the first place.
 

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