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Thread: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

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    AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    We had a 27ft 52 d AGP installed today. Total gallons are supposed to be 18600. We are filling now and hopefully will be done by Sun. We have a Hayward cartridge filter with a permasalt system. The permasalt does not seem like what I have read about on this site. The installers did not tell us anything about start up. We are supposed to go to "pool school". but I would rather have ya'lls opinion first. These are the chemicals we have

    Big bucket of permasalt with borates, mineral remover, and cya (supposed to be used 1/season)
    Klairate "concentrated natural enzyme clarifier", used every 2 weeks
    Activate "dichlor with oxone blend", used every 2 weeks

    We are supposed to start up the filter, add the salt stuff and thats as far as I have gotten. I have read the stickies but usually these things don't make sense until I am actually doing it. I bought the Taylor Test Kit from this site. Any thoughts on this perma salt system?
    Thanks
    Jill
    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Welcome to TFP!

    I have never heard of permasalt and a quick Internet search doesn't turn up anything. Is that the way they spell it on the package?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Yup, I have a feeling it is the pool company's brand. The pool company is Watson's. I couldn't find anything about it either, so I am feeling a little nervous about it. Thanks for the quick reply.
    Jill
    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    Guest
    My bet is that is it a Bioguard Mineral Springs system from the ingedients in your start up salt mix. If you could take pics of yor salt cell and controller it would be very helpful in identifying what you actually have.

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    Ok I am going to try to put pictures on. The instructions mention Total Dissolved Solids 1000 min ppm in order to achieve an accurate level of the natuarl mineral residual, copper. Copper should be maintained between .3-.5 ppm. Is my hair going to turn green using this stuff? How do you test for Total Dissolved Solids? Most SWG I have seen were $800 or more. Mine cost $299. Hmmm
    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    Guest
    Sounds like you don't have a plain salt system but a salt/ionizer system or a plain ionizer. From the price I am going to guess it is an ionizer system since many of them are around $300 and up for active ionizers. I was also a bit disturbed by the weekly shock ( a combination of dichlor and MPS) but now it makes more sense.
    If this turns out to be your standard copper/silver ionizer then yes, it is very possible that your hair can turn green if it is blonde, white, or porous!

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    Is the filter also the ionizer? It is called a Voyager 150 sq ft 1.5 hp molecular sieve liberty gold element system by Hayward. Can I still do the BBB system with this.? Thanks for your help.
    Jill
    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    Here are pictures of the filter and permasalt system. (I hope)





    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    Guest
    No, it's a separate unit that is plumbed inline. If your system is a Hayward you most likely have an X Stream 150 sq ft cartridge filter and a 1.5 hp pump, most likely a Powerflo Matrix. This is a "skid pack" which means the pump and filter are together on a plastic base. The 'molecular sieve" stuff is just marketing hype.

    Edit: I am looking at the picture and I am right about which filter you have.
    The permasalt chemical is just basically borates and CYA that is added yearly to refresh your CYA and borate levels and I strongly susupect that the unit itself is just a copper ionizer. I am a bit confused by the plumbing in the pic, I do not see the dkimmer going into the pump. In fact it looks like there is no connection to the pump. Does the Permasalt control unit have any kind of adjustmets on it for percentage, voltage, or run time? Also, what is that long black electiical cable that looks like it comes out of the unit?

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    Funny! That is where we bought our pool from and it was installed yesterday and I am also full of questions just like you!!! They weren't very good at instructing us on anything either. They suggested that we go to the "pool school" on Saturday, at 9 a.m. no less, but I have 3 kids that are active in sports and I can't drive 1.5 hr to go to the pool school. We didn't do the salt system and it seems way more confusing than the one that we went with. How did you upload you photos. When I try it says the file is too big.

    Trish
    24' round 52" deep AGP! Voyager Swimpro filter, Hayward Powerflo LX 1.5 hp pump,

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    There is a line from the skimmer to the pump and I have no idea what the black line is, power maybe? Do you think this is a good system?

    pleavell, my pictures were too big also and I could not figure out how to resize, so I joined Photobucket (free) and uploaded the pictures there, then you copy and paste the IMG address from the photobucket website to your post. It was very easy. I couldn't believe it worked!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    The black cord goes to the light.

    Once we are full and the filter is going I think I just dump in the bucket of "perma"salt. Does this sound right. I have the "duraleigh" test kit and will post numbers after the filter has been going a while.

    pfleavell, Watson's did tell me they would do a "pool school" anytime. It does not have to be on Sat morn.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    27' 52" AGP, approx 18600 gal., 1.5 HP Hayward Power Flo LX with Voyager cartridge filter, Aquatrol SWG

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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    No, it's a separate unit that is plumbed inline. If your system is a Hayward you most likely have an X Stream 150 sq ft cartridge filter and a 1.5 hp pump, most likely a Powerflo Matrix. This is a "skid pack" which means the pump and filter are together on a plastic base. The 'molecular sieve" stuff is just marketing hype.

    Edit: I am looking at the picture and I am right about which filter you have.
    The permasalt chemical is just basically borates and CYA that is added yearly to refresh your CYA and borate levels and I strongly susupect that the unit itself is just a copper ionizer. I am a bit confused by the plumbing in the pic, I do not see the dkimmer going into the pump. In fact it looks like there is no connection to the pump. Does the Permasalt control unit have any kind of adjustmets on it for percentage, voltage, or run time? Also, what is that long black electiical cable that looks like it comes out of the unit?
    Hey Evan, you can barely see the hose coming out of the skimmer in the first picture, just above the filter. The filter is blocking your view of the rest.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Ladies,

    We bought our AGP from Watson's as well a few years back, and attended their pool school. If you have any hardware-related questions, then the pool school is a great source of information. Be aware however, that Watson's is in business to sell pools and pool chemicals. FWIW, I've had much better success maintaining my pool using the BBB method than I ever had using bacpac's and Blast.

    Jill, you need to really question them on the permasalt system. Adding copper to your pool is something I know I wouldn't want to do.


    The pool startup guy we had was named Daron Legeron, I think. He did good work, and answered all of our questions.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    Re: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    We purchased our pool from Watson's last year (they are now "Family Leisure"). We have had great success with our permasalt system. We only add chemicals every 2 weeks and it is super easy to maintain and stayed clear all year. We did attend the pool school and now they have their pool school online which makes it real convenient if you forget something. The pool schools are very informative and really gave us a good education, this is our first time owning a pool. I see now that they have all of their perma salt chemicals online and all of their pool supplies and regular chemicals online as well (that will make it easier). Anyways we are very happy with our pool and our service and the whole experience we had was great. Here is the link to the page that has the pool supplies and quite a bit of info on the perma salt system as well http://www.familyleisure.com/Pool-Supplies. Anyways hope this was a little help to someone, we are off to the pool.

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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Re: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    "The Perma Salt System uses a natural synergy for a holistic approach to water maintenance. First, the System Chamber disperses natural minerals into the water, such as copper and silver, that serve as natural algaecides. By simply adjusting the dial, these natural mineral levels can be adjusted and maintained to their ideal levels. In addition, these natural minerals are complemented by a family of ancillary products"


    To each their own, but I wouldn't put either copper or silver into my pool. You're asking for either staining and/or green hair. A properly sanitized pool needs neither shocking or a constant algaecide, as attested to by many on this forum. It's one of many reasons I stopped using the AquaSmarte mineral system also sold by pool stores such as Family Liesure.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    I like my water to be blue and hair to stay brown...I vote no on adding copper to your pool water
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    I have had the Perma Salt System for two years now. My pool water has always been blue and very clear and my hair remains brown.

    I think the key is to follow the FIRST step in the manual. After adding the Preparate you put the control knob between 3 and 5. A bit later you take it down (I would have to look at the manual again). Anyway, I always keep mine on 2 and NEVER have had a problem with staining, cloudiness or greenish water. I just check the PH and alkalinity, adjust if needed; if not just add the Activate and Klarate every two weeks. It is super easy and I like the softness of my skin after getting out. And no chlorine smell.

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    Hi Kathi and welcome to TFP

    This may be working for you as of now and I truly wish you the best of luck, but if you are not checking your chlorine levels at least once a week, eventually you will have problems. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the permasalt system, but based on the ingredients (incl copper) previously listed, my preference is to just stick with a plain old salt water chlorine generator and the methods prescribed in pool school on this forum.

    I've owned a pool before, but since finding TFP I have never so cheaply maintained a pool.

    summary of my season after TA was balanced...$179 on a swg (should last 3 yrs) I've spent $40 on salt and maybe $10 in bleach and $70 on the TF100. Never once did I shock the pool this season or had to add a bag of this or that every other week. but I religiously checked FC, CC and PH. I appreciate your feedback on the permasalt, but trust me add enough copper to your water and you'll be wondering why it's turning green...and then the only remedy is a drain and fill.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: AGP installed today!! What is permasalt??

    Hi dmanb2b,

    Thanks for responding.

    The Perma Salt System is a bit difficult to explain but please know it is NOT a salt generator system. If you are interested, go to Watson's Website for Indianapolis and in the upper right corner is a window that talks about Pool School. If you click on that, it will bring you to another screen with "Mike the Pool Guy" LOL! Anyway, you will see different dropdowns. Click on the one about the Perma Salt System. The explanation he gives is much easier than I could provide. But basically it is a low chlor system and you won't see high levels of chlorine on the test strips in conjuction with Preparate, Activate and Klarate, it works just great. Anyway, I use regular test strips and the Aqua Check test strips. Everything throughout the summer is within range. So, I just add the Activate and Klarate every two weeks; sometimes I even it give it a few days because my pool just doesn't turn green...never has.

    The only problem I have had is with high Alkilinity when I first open. But that is due more to Indiana water which is very alkiline anyway. Once I put in the Muriatic acid, I am good to go.

    Oh, I have a friend who has had an above ground pool for years and was always battling what you are speaking of. This year he switched over to the Perma Salt System and loves it! I have not seen him for most of the summer but when he did stop by the other day, he said it was the best thing he has ever done and that his pool has stayed clear all summer long.

    Anyway, I want to thank you again for responding. But can someone answer this question.

    Dummy me LOL! I bought a new winter cover and my husband put it on. The thing is it was tan on one side and black on the other. He put the black side UP! I think it is supposed to be the other way around but will it make a big difference? My husband just didn't know as he didn't close the pool last year and he really doesn't want to have to take it off. But it is bugging me. Thanks!

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