POOL CLARITY

[dolphin]

how efficient are filters?
i transferred my sand filter into a Zeolite media to improve the filtering capabilities. The improvements are somewhat better but not 100%. If i leave the pool alone, i get lots of fine green/yellow stuff to sweep off the bottom of the pool somewhow the vacuum just keeps missing.
I never get CC's to signify algae or the like stating the water is cloudy. this is using a deditated DPD test kit.
in 4 hours i get a complete pool turn over so why shouldnt my zeolite be able to capture dead or alive ( well they are dead you can be assure of that) particles? its been 3 weeks and im still sweeping green /yellow particles at the bottom of the pool.
does it really need to have a chemical to pick all that debris off the floor, despite the type of media i use for filtering media?
2) the next biggest question , Shocking! : if there i algae , does a DPT test kit register it as Combine Clorine??? Even if you scrape or brush like heck the pool ???
3) when Shocking, will the chlorine eventually oxidize the dead algae (or the like i.e. pollen) ?
bottom line: if a sand or zeolite filter cant keep up or filter out pollen or dead algae fast enough?....?
7,500 gallon pool, 1/2 , Hayward S166T , new Zeolite , spider gasket ok, laterals ok, water chemistry ok .
so what gives????

 

[JasonLion]

What kind of filter you use is a secondary consideration. The best filters are a little faster at cleaning up the water, but even the less good filters achieve perfect water if you get everything else right. No filter will completely keep up with pollen at the peak of pollen season, but any filter should be able to handle essentially all of the pollen for most of the year.

It is possible to miss stuff when vacuuming, especially if you move too quickly, creating currents that push the fine debris away from the vacuum. However it is more likely that you are getting fresh debris replacing the old stuff each time. What you describe could easily be pollen if it is pollen season where you are. It could also be dead algae if your FC level is just a little bit too low.

Algae at the same time that CC is zero is quite common.

Chlorine alone will kill algae, but the dead algae will still remain in the water until it is filtered out.

You should post a complete set of water test results. We can give you much more specific answers with that additional information.

 

[dolphin]

water log stats
yesterday's chem numbers: FC = 3, CC= 0.0, TA= 40(low i know), CH= 150,CYA= near 0, pH= 7.7
Today = FC= 3 CC=0.0 TA=40, CH 150, CYA = ~0.
Test done with Taylor FAS DPD Kit = using a scoop a granular 0871 (or 0870 ).
Kit is very very accurate .

notes: TA is low but tends to get shot down very quickly and therefore expensive to replenish.
I monitor the pH as frequently as i do with the CC or FC's.

the media is 7 days old with Zeolite, backwashed at least 4 times before putting it to work.
Laterals ok, spider & multivalve ok.
Turn over rate: 1 cycle / 4 hours. 7,500 gal. 16" sand filter w/ Zeolite

Today's duties and Log:
Water clarity a little on the worse side despite the overkill brushing and vacuuming done in the past few days .
The clarity is on the brownish side and tends to show up a little on the greenish/yellowish side when the pool line shines thru it.
The Taylor kit revealed no hint of CC's whatsoever... which is bewildering & strange.
Using the process of elimination :
Thinking i may have residual algae (dead or alive)and or pollen.
I therefore used a 12 oz of Calcium Hypocrite 65% because of its good Oxidizing capabilities, in hoping to 'break appart' the cellular walls.
I also lowered the pH to 7.2 ish to keep the chlorine on the oxidizing side of its job.
the fact that the clarity is not on the white side tells me it is not an excess of calcium chloride in the water ( i had that problem ages ago. The remedy for that was immediate using muriatic acid to revert the CA back into solution).
Summary:
if the cloudiness is due to organics ( micro organism , algae/pollen), shouldn't chloramines be formed??
if the cloudiness is due to a mineral issue, CA for instance. Its understandable and probably correct in saying no chloramines should be formed.
Times like this, i really wish i had a microscope to see what the little green/ yellowish particles are :-/

 

[Bama Rambler]

I assume this is an outdoor pool, therefore I suggest you need more CYA and you should run an OCLT.
With near zero CYA your FC is getting consumed very rapidly.

 

[dolphin]

i only get 2 hours of sun hitting the pool. My FC's never drop below 3. I monitor the FC's twice daily. If the bottom keeps dropping out of my chlorine then yes i would add CYA but i hardly loose any.

The only way to be sure is too keep my FC's high for a few days n see what happens. Right now, i'm keeping the FC's up in the 11's

The pool calculator is telling me the water is close to beeing too acidic (0.55). So i may have no choice but to dump all kinds of Baking soda to bring up my TA (40 right now).

 

[dolphin]

As i mentioned i have and been having 0.00 FC's. The test kit i have is a fresh batch of Taylor FAS DPD kit . The kit witch contains the 0870, 0871 and the R003 and is very accurate.
Which is strange... if i had CC's ( algae / pollen) it should show up readily....oddd

 

[dolphin]

i meant to say 0.00 CC's (not FC's) typo.

 

[dolphin]

i ll perform the OLCT test with the Taylor FAS DPD test kit. I dont have the sun beaming into the pool . I'll know tomorrow if the clarity improved AND if i had more than 1 ppm loss of FC overnight.

I'll be surprised if i do have algae in the pool because why doesn't it show up as CC's by the Taylor kit??
Maybe its a question i should ask Taylor Industries?

 

[JasonLion]

As I mentioned before, there is no reason to expect CC to be above zero when you have algae. CC almost always stays at zero when you have algae.

 

[dolphin]

oh ok. That would squarely explain it. This greatly helps to narrow down the cloudy problem... As mentioned in the previous post, prior to shocking to see if loss of chlorine, in anticipation to see if the filter was clearing up the water. In fact, the water was slightly getting browner/greener. The only possible sign is some organic material ending up in there.
So now, i am following your recommendations using the OLCT. I have shocked the pool and taken a reading just after the sun no longer shines into the pool. Tomorrow morning, just before the sun hits the pool, ill take another reading.
A few hours into the shocking with Cal Hypo, i've already noticed some clarity to the color and the opacity of the water already. So, we'll keep our fingers crossed and know for sure tomorrow morning.
If i lose more than 1 ppm overnight then i know for sure i have to get serious with the shocking - keeping it at mustard algae shock levels until no loss of FC's

 

[jblizzle]

The OCLT will give you the story as to whether you have organics in the pool.

I want to also point out that often cal-hypo can make the water cloudy all by itself (although more white I believe).

If you fail the OCLT, there is no need to just up to mustard shock level ... just maintain the normal FC shock level until you pass the 3 tests to stop the shock process.

 

[dolphin]

ok, as you mentioned, if i fail the OCLT overnight, I'll just maintain 'normal shock levels' for the corresponding CYA levels i currently have in the pool, until i no longer loose FC's =< to 1 ppm.
Yes, the Cal Hypo has made the water cloudy in the past, but as you mentioned, it makes a snowy white rather than a dirty brown ( which is what i have).
I may maintain normal shock FC's tomorrow with just Sodium Hypochlorite. My CA is rather on the low side so the usage of Cal Hypo shouldn't over saturate the water hardness or make the water cloudy for too long

 

[dolphin]

This morning the FC's hardly budged at all... I'm still going to hold the 'normal shock level ' until the water does clear up.
I'm convinced there is something organic in the water ( algae / pollen).
One thing is for certain, the moment the shock process got started, the water wasnt brown or dark in appearance but now only has a lighter shade of white in it.
I will maintain the 'normal shock' until it completly clears up

 

[Richard320]

This morning the FC's hardly budged at all... I'm still going to hold the 'normal shock level ' until the water does clear up.
I'm convinced there is something organic in the water ( algae / pollen).
One thing is for certain, the moment the shock process got started, the water wasnt brown or dark in appearance but now only has a lighter shade of white in it.
I will maintain the 'normal shock' until it completly clears up

That is the first test you must pass - "the water is clear."

The overnight loss and the combined chlorine are nice confirmation, but really, what you're after is clear, sparkly, water. Be sure to brush thoroughly. Algae develops a membrane that protects it from chlorine. Brushing exposes the algae so the bleach can kill it. I also recommened throwing any pool toys or tools in the pool for a good soak, in case they are carrying algae spores.

 

[dolphin]

i brush very regularly thats for sure.. Im anxious to get back to crystal clear water.
Another interesting point is...
If i maintain 'good shock levels', how long can the algae survive ( if any do survive) in a hostile 'shock level'???
In case i miss a few spots ... can they survive days on end in a shock level environment, can they?

 

[dolphin]

this afternoon, the clarity greatly improved. I can finally see the screws to the drain cover with a faint halo / haze around it. I also gave it a 1/2 and 1/2 of Cal Hypo and Sodium Hypo to keep the levels well into the 'normal shock'. Tomorrow, i might just give it Sodium Hypo. The Cal hypo is good at oxidizing from what i hear.

 

[Smykowski]

Tomorrow, i might just give it Sodium Hypo. The Cal hypo is good at oxidizing from what i hear.

They both oxidize exactly the same. Whether you put Bleach or Cal-Hypo in the water, they both immediately form hypochlorous acid. It both oxidizes chemicals you don't want in your pool (most popular are nitrogen based gems like sweat and pee) and sanitizes anything that's living in it (algae, bacteria, etc.).

My point is that the end result is the same. Decide what to put in your pool based on what it needs - if CH is low, put in Cal Hypo. Otherwise, put in the cheapest chlorine source you can get your hands on.

 

[dolphin]

oh ok, if they both have the same oxidizing properties. Even as we speak, today even, the water clarity greatly improved. You almost have to look hard now to see any haze.
And you are right regarding changing types of chlorine to get the right amount of CH.
I'll just leave it at the current shock level for a few more days after the water clears up, just be absolutely sure no algae hiding say, behind a light niche ever has a chance to proliferate again.
So far so good. Tomorrow, at this rate, the water will be clear

 

[dolphin]

As i can see, the Trouble Free Pool has been right on the money. I think the problem with water clarity is that it can be broken down into 2 parts: 1) is it chemically based or 2) is it biologically based.
Im my case, although my DPD test kit registered 0.0 for Chloramines, i had a nasty algae / pollen bloom happening ( a greenish wisp when sweeping the bottom).
Gut instinct and the help of TFP, an OLCT test would be the way to go.
The instant dossing the pool with cal hypo / sodium Hypo .. dosing to TFP pool calculator the problem almost rectified itself so,...

 

[dolphin]

this morning, 3 rd day of starting the 'normal shock treatment', the water is 95% clear. You have to look hard to see if there are any haze in the water.
I will keep the chlorine levels at shock levels for a few more days as prescribed by TFP, just to be certain all the algae even the hidden lurking ones are DEAD!