Indoor SWG Pool not producing enough Chlorine

[Masspools]

Hi All

This is my first post and I am a service professional that is stumped on a problem. I have an indoor commercial pool, 22,500 gallons. I just added a Aqua-rite Pro w/ S&D system to it about a month ago.

My readings
PH = 7.6
ORP between 450 and 500.
FC = .5
Alk = 80.
Cal = 220.
Salt = 3300
Tcell 15

I called Hayward about a week ago to troubleshoot a low ORP level being displayed on the unit. They mentioned that phosphates were eating up all the chlorine. With no where else to turn I measured the Phosphate and found they were at 2500. I brought some commercial grade Phosfree (yes I know it is stupid) and now the pool is cloudy and has a residue on the top. I have added new water and backwash the dual Triton II filters. I already vac the bottom to waste. I returned 8 hours later and no change so I backwashed again and added clear blue to see if the particle would combine and catch in the filter. No luck yet.....

what can I do to clear the pool, and what am I up against for time of clearing...

Thank you
Jim

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Are there any CCs? Any sign of algae or cloudy water?

A SWG is good at maintaining a FC level, but sometime struggles to raise it ... especially if there is something in the water (organic) consuming it.

I would recommend performing the Overnight FC Loss Test (which required a FAS-DPD chlorine test) to determine if you have something consuming the FC with the SWG off. You will need to raise the FC with something (preferably liquid chlorine) to see if there is a loss.

It could also be that you have high CC due to the lack of sun and the FC is having to work to break them down ... can you provide more details about the equipment on the pool?

Are you able to have CYA in a commercial pool in your jurisdiction? As we still recommend a low level for indoor pools to help buffer the chlorine.

 

[Masspools]

Thanks for the quick reply, I did shock the pool today with Cal Hypo raised up the Chlorine level to over 10ppm. The pool has a 5hp pump, 2 Triton II TR-100 filters, 3 inch pipe, Raypak Heater. We are not allowed to have CYA in the pool here in Mass. A couple of weeks ago the used metal out to get copper staining out of the water. Next I focused on the battle with raising the ORP where I came to adding Phosfree. The water is very cloudy with a residue on top, there was a no visible signs of algae.

 

[Masspools]

should I turn off the filter and let it settle for the night

 

[JamesW]

What were you using before adding the SWG?

If it was bromine, how much total weight of bromine tabs have been used since the pool was last filled?

What else can you tell us about the history of the pool?

Where did the copper come from?

What other chemicals have been added?

 

[JasonLion]

Using PhosFree is what caused the cloudiness. It can be cleared up, but it tends to take some work. Phosphates have nothing to do with whatever the original problem is/was. Phosphates do not consume chlorine. Algae consumes chlorine, and if the phosphate level is really really low then the algae can't grow, but generally it is far simpler, and less expensive, to eliminate the algae than it is to lower a very high phosphate level. Clarifier is usually enough to get the cloudiness to clump up into something the filter can catch. I believe that PhosFree includes some clarifier, which is usually enough, but sometimes you have to add more. It can still take the filter some time to filter out the cloudiness, especially with a sand filter. Watch to see if there is any improvement from day to day. If there is you are on the right track. Of course the whole situation gets more complex if you also have algae at the same time.

There is most likely some kind of organic contamination in the water, most likely algae, though it could be something else. On the other hand, MetalFree consumes chlorine, though not usually enough to cause a problem. I suppose it could have been enough to overwhelm the SWG temporarily, but that seems unlikely. An overnight FC loss test will show if there is still something in the water consuming chlorine.

There is some chance the ORP probe will need to be cleaned, as sometimes the particles that cause the clouding will accumulate on the probe to some extent. Did the ORP level go up as expected when you shocked the pool? If so there probably isn't anything to worry about. But if you see low ORP and normal FC levels you should clean it.

 

[Masspools]

It was a liquid Acid/Chlorine pool. Poorly managed with a past history of staining. The pool was literally brown before we acid washed it back to normal. There was still reminisce of the staining but not very visible after we finished. They never added calcium!

The liquid feed system was an old autopilot, with the circular probe housing. The feeders weren't working so I manually added Chlorine pucks to the skimmer (just between you and me) until they invested in a new system. I did notice at one point of adding the pucks the pool changed. Have you ever heard of Chlorine pucks changing the color of pool water? I dropped one in the spa as a test, it changed it to green in 2 minutes, timed it.
Does Phosfree work? I've never used it before thought was a gimmick. It clouded up the water pretty good.

 

[Masspools]

Jason Lion....You are the best!.....You also joined on my Birthday!

 

[JasonLion]

Thanks

We don't recommend ever using PhosFree, even though there is a sense in which it does work. It tends to cause problems and it costs too much to be worth using in the great majority of situations. If you can get the phosphate level low enough, which is not at all easy if you are starting from 2,500, then it is possible to prevent algae from growing. However, clouding up the water is a common side effect, it gets rather expensive, and if there is phosphate in your fill water, which is getting more common, then it is completely hopeless. There are much simpler and less expensive ways to keep algae from growing.

If there is copper in the water, and conditions are right, adding chlorine will turn the water green, generally a bright emerald green. If there is iron in the water then adding chlorine can turn the water yellow, which often looks green against a blue pool surface. If you removed the stains, and did not also drain the pool and/or replace most of your water, then the metals are still in the water, and can deposit on the pool surface again unless you hold them in suspension with regular additions of sequestrant.

 

[Masspools]

If the metals do deposit on the surface are they particles that can be vacuumed to waste, or do they reconnect with the surface. In this case should I add metal out to the pool again, suspending the particles into the water, then flock the pool?

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

If pucks were used then CYA is no longer 0 unless you changed the water. As for the water changing color doesn't Baquacil behave that way when chlorine is introduced?


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[JasonLion]

There isn't any reliable way to get the metals out of the water short of replacing the water. Sequestrant binds to the metals and prevents them from forming stains, but it breaks down slowly and need to be replaced. Occasionally sequestrant will cause the metals to form clumps large enough to filter out, or floc, but that is rare.

We do not recommend using MetalFree. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find many other brands with similar active ingredients, some of which are noticeably less expensive.