Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

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L

LotusRacerX

0
Jul 25, 2012
101
Georgia
Well, it happened to me for the second time....ants built a mound into my 1hp pool pump.
It was tripping the breaker. I cleaned away the mound and got the ants out of the electronics and now I get the dreaded hum, but not starting. I also blasted water into the vent openings to clear out the mud.

I have executed my "Plan B", and moved the feature pump into position as the filter pump. Out of harms way for now, but I want to consider more a economical main pump, if I cannot fix the one I have pulled out.

So, 2 questions:

1. Is my current pump dead? I plan to rip it apart later to see if I can clean out more mud to get it to run.

2. Leslie's claims the Hayward EcoStar pump saves $1500 in electricity per year. That's $125/month. I read here that it also features freeze protection, which sounds cool. Has anyone tracked their energy savings from this pump? Cost is $1300 at Leslie's.
 
How high are your electric rates? My total electric bill (which includes air conditioning a 2700 square foot house in Tucson AZ) averages around $180/month. I doubt it would go down to $55 if I bought a new pool pump.

I figure my pool pumps consume about $40/month at the height of the swim season, even less during other months, and that's for old single speed units.
 
1) You won't know if it's ruined until you takes the back cover off and see what's wrong in there.

2) Unless you live in one of the few places where the electric rate is very high, had a very large hp single speed pump that you were replacing and ran it 24 hours a day, you're not going to see nearly that much savings. My big ole single speed pump on;y costs me about $40 per month or less during the swim season to run, so no pump could save me $1500 per year. They like to exaggerate the savings with those pumps. While they are good pumps and can save money, you need to be realistic about how much it will really save you.

Tell us about your pool & equipment and how much electricity costs you.
 
My electric bill runs a minimum of $125, and runs to a maximum of $300 in coldest winter/warmest summer months.
So I guess I spend $175 on A/C here in southern Georgia, so pool is certainly less than $60/month.
GP estimates it is between $26 and $40, using their calculator.
Can't really turn the pool off for a month to find out exactly the charge. :)

Pool is 21000 gals...SWG, pump was 1 hp, now I am back to 3/4 hp using the old feature pump. (Pool company originally used 3/4 for both...replacement last time was with 1 hp, due to lack of 3/4 hp availability.)
 
Well, no luck getting further into the motor than the impeller removal. Seems like a lot of delicate work needs to be done to get the thing truly apart. I shined a light in and things did not look too bad, although there was a smell of burnt electronics in the motor windings (not from the electronics in the end cap with the magneto.)

I will let it dry out overnight some more, and install in the morning as the feature pump, to see if it wants to work.

Based on the input so far, I may just select a standard 3/4 pump again.
 
Did you pull the back cover off and clean the contacts?

In south Georgia your electric rate isn't high enough that you'd ever recoup the extra cost of a variable speed pump. Your best bet would be to go with a 2-speed. Either a 3/4th hp full rated or a 1 hp uprated pump would work fine.
 
Yeah, it's shot. Put it back and at first it buzzed. Turned off and heard a "click" a minute later.
Tried again, and it ran slowly with a bad grinding sound. So time for a new pump.

What's the story with the 2 speed pump? Is that a rewiring project as well?
 
There are several good reasons to consider a multi speed or variable speed pump, but they will never pay back the extra cost in a single year. I plan of using one the next time I have to replace a pump, but instant savings isn't my prime reason. Quite operation, better filtration are more important in my decision making. Savings are only achieved over the long term and that is assuming a good long life cycle with no problems.
 
I notice the Variable pumps are fully sealed (no vents) and so would have survived an anthill being built against the pump.

Hey, just wanted to give some more pool info. I have 1.5 inch piping all around, including to and from the Filter.
The SWG is designed for 2" pipe, so there are 2 special junctions to allow for that transition and back.
The filter claims to process 75 gpm, but the flow through 1.5 inch piping is only 42 gpm, so I think that is what I have to shoot for. I have 3 return lines and only 2 lines out to the pool, but all branch from the same 1.5 inch central piping.

So, will a 2 speed filter be able to push enough water? Seems with the variable, you can tweak it to what you need, but I can see buying the 2 speed and having to run it in the higher speed all the time. (saving nothing, and spending 2x on the pump, it appears.)

Seems if I settle for a single speed motor only, I can get a AO Smith UST1072 Pool Pump Motor with the 56J Frame, and be done with it for only $160. Wonder if the 2-speeds have the 56J frame?

Guys, what does "up-rated" mean? Doesn't sound good.
 

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Google is your friend...here is the skinny on up-rating:

The Calculation
There is one simple calculation which tells the whole story

Horsepower X Service Factor = Total Brake Horsepower

If you multiply the horsepower rating times the service factor, you find out the total brake horsepower.

The total brake horsepower of the pump is real power rating of that pump or motor.

How Pumps and Motors Get Uprated
The motor plate above lists the following ratings for this 3/4 HP Full-Rated Motor:
Horsepower - 0.75 Service Factor - 1.5
If we insert these factors into the equation, we end up with the following result
Horsepower X Service Factor = Total Brake Horsepower
0.75 1.5 1.13
Now, suppose you really wanted to take this motor and call it a 1.0 HP motor instead.

You would just INCREASE the Horsepower Rating and DECREASE the Service Factor.

Horsepower X Service Factor = Total Brake Horsepower
1.0 1.13 1.13
VOILA . . . that 3/4 HP Full Rated Motor is now classified as a 1.0 HP Up-Rated Motor

EXACT SAME MOTOR . . . DIFFERENT HORSEPOWER RATING
 
Thanks for the schooling....I thought about Pool School, but did not think that was in the syllabus. :-D

Does it matter if my pumps down a hill, 4 feet lower than the pool deck? Does that increase my "head", or is it a wash, since water pressure into my pumps is positive, rather than a vacuum. Which means when my seals fail (happened once in a freeze) I lose an expensive 4 feet of water.
 
It might make a little difference depending on just how it's situated, but it's most likely not much. The head you gain on the suction side by being lower than the pool is offset by the amount you have to pump the water back up hill to get to the returns.
 
LotusRacerX said:
Thanks for the schooling....I thought about Pool School, but did not think that was in the syllabus. :-D

Does it matter if my pumps down a hill, 4 feet lower than the pool deck? Does that increase my "head", or is it a wash, since water pressure into my pumps is positive, rather than a vacuum. Which means when my seals fail (happened once in a freeze) I lose an expensive 4 feet of water.
Click to expand...

If your equipment is downhill then that is 4feet of vertical head. Honestly is should zero out depending on where the return lines are.

Seals Fail??

So what seals failed motor, returns, tablet feeder??
 
poolweasel said:
Seals Fail??
So what seals failed motor, returns, tablet feeder??
Click to expand...

Sorry, it was actually a valve freeze/burst, from the floor drain return. I just worry that with ME re-assembling my pumps, I might mess it up and have another water loss situation in the future.

Are you saying that if there is no leak once re-assembled, it will not start to leak later? That would be comforting.

With the 2 speed pumps, the top speed is too much for my pipes, at 1.5 hp, and the slow speed of .25hp sounds too low. I am thinking of going with a Full Rated .5 hp unit, which multiplies out to .8hp, while using less power than my current .75 uprated motor.
 
Is the return still under water?

What part of the country do you live?

I agree with the two speed and not using but, depends if you are replacing the pump or the motor.

Top speed of any pump is around 3250 rpm

Variable speed motor can replace any motor.

A pump as a whole you must get a .(v speed) a two speeds top speed has to be a tad lower.
 
There's no guarantee that a pump won't leak later but that's true even with a brand new pump. The chance of it happening is really low. Once you get it all reassembled and it has ran for a little while, if there are no leaks, then there's a very good chance that there won't be until the unit wears out again, and that will be along time.

Replace the motor/pump with a 2-speed model. The high speed will be the same as you have now and the low speed won't be too low. When you reduce the speed of the pump you also reduce the head losses and therefore a very small hp will turn the impeller. Even though it seems like a very small hp on low it's designed to operate that way and be fine with it.

Actually top speed is about 3450 but that doesn't matter anyway.

A variable speed motor can only replace a motor with the same frame size and rated for the same hp or less. Also if you replace the motor with a variable speed motor you're going to have to have a controller also.

I don't know what poolweasel is trying to say in the last sentence, but as I said, in south Georgia a variable speed pump will never pay for itself. Now if you just want one for the "coolness" factor that's a different animal and it certainly will work for you.
 
OK, I got it down to 2 contenders:
AO Smith ST1052 1/2 hp, 1.6 sf 5.3 amps at 230v
AO Smith B977 2-speed 1.3 sf 1/4 hp 3.1 amp/1.5 hp 8.9 amp

My thought is that the single speed is the "safe choice", will definitely work. Essentially the same as my 3/4 hp uprated motor with its 1.0 sf. Slightly less amps, and 1/3 less amps than the 1hp unit that just blew up.

I am willing to trust that the 2-speed will move some water at 1/4 hp * 1.3 = 1/3 hp
What I am worried about is that when run at the higher speed (1.5 hp * 1.3 = 2 hp), it will be too much for my skinny 1.5 inch pipes. Is this really not a concern?

If they all spin at 3450 rpm, then how are the higher powered units providing more flow exactly? Or would a unit that is too low powered simply buzz and not turn at all?
 
You should match the high speed HP and SF to your existing pump and ignore the low speed parameters ... Assuming you are not replacing the pump and only the motor. There are certainly smaller 2 speed pumps available.

The impellers are different depending on the HP, so they move more water. If the motor HP is too small for the impeller, you will shorten the life of the motor and it may overheat. A larger motor will be fine on a smaller impeller, but costs more for the same performance.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short ;)
 

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