Inground Pool Closing questions

[DanaSC]

Hope I don't get in trouble for doing this, but we're trying to close our pool this week and I've got several questions...I need a bit of hand holding if possible...I only got a partial response in the thread where I originally posted...any help would be greatly appreciated!

Is there anyone who is in South Carolina that can give me their protocol for closing their inground pool? I don't think Leslie's Pool recommended we blow out our lines last year...so we didn't...(don't even know how to do that so advice/instructions would be greatly appreciated) and we didn't have a problem. I'm guessing we should still do it just because we never know what our weather is going to be like.

Also, I don't know how much antifreeze to purchase. How do I know how many feet of pipe I have? And I feel really ignorant with my questions, but how do you add it to the pipes? Like do I put the antifreeze into the skimmer?

Lastly, I have no idea what "drain plugs" are. Can you describe them for me?

 

[vsyzer]

I don't think there is any need to blow out your lines or use antifreeze on inground pools in The Great State of South Carolina especially in the midlands where you are. I put a cover over the pool, set the multiport valve to "winter", drain the filter and disconnect the pump and put it in the garage. If you can't remove your pump, be sure to drain the water out of it also. You can put a gizmo or a weighted jug in the skimmer if you are worried it might get cold enough to freeze the water in it.

 

[DanaSC]

I don't think there is any need to blow out your lines or use antifreeze on inground pools in The Great State of South Carolina especially in the midlands where you are. I put a cover over the pool, set the multiport valve to "winter", drain the filter and disconnect the pump and put it in the garage. If you can't remove your pump, be sure to drain the water out of it also. You can put a gizmo or a weighted jug in the skimmer if you are worried it might get cold enough to freeze the water in it.

Great, thank you so much for the reply! Leslie's says to blow out lines...finally went to Griffin and asked a bunch of questions and used some of the info I've learned here...even got them to agree that some aglaecide and gizmos would do the trick. Thank you!

 

[DanaSC]

Just a few more questions. Our CYA was 100+ (we used pucks this summer...regrettably!) so we drained the pool and got it down to 50. Here's my #'s:

FC: 2
CC: 0
pH: 7.2
TA: 70
CH: 130
CYA: 50

Getting ready to winterize. Questions are:

Can I go ahead and do the OCLT tonight even though I'm obviously going to have to add calcium tomorrow? If so, how long after adding the calcium should I wait to add the polyquat (assuming we pass OCLT tonight) so we can close the pool tomorrow?

Is pH ok at 7.2 for closing or do I need to bring it up to 7.4?

Thanks!

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

FC: 2
CC: 0
pH: 7.2
TA: 70
CH: 130
CYA: 50


Can I go ahead and do the OCLT tonight even though I'm obviously going to have to add calcium tomorrow? If so, how long after adding the calcium should I wait to add the polyquat (assuming we pass OCLT tonight) so we can close the pool tomorrow?

Is pH ok at 7.2 for closing or do I need to bring it up to 7.4?

Good news - CYA is on target...
Bad news - FC is too low.
OCLT should take place at near shock levels...
Polyquat needs 24 hours to circulate before closing.

Sent via Tapatalk...

 

[DanaSC]

Can the polyquat run for the 24 hours while I'm adding the calcium and doing the OCLT?

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Can the polyquat run for the 24 hours while I'm adding the calcium and doing the OCLT?

My understanding is that you need the chlorine level to be about half of shock value when you add the polyquat (or lower). The problem with your plan is that if you failed the OCLT you'd be "wasting" the polyquat - since you would be running up to shock. Polyquat is impacted by chlorine although the manufacturer says that the shorter chains left after interaction with chlorine are still effective - so it may not matter much. Additionally, some people have reported some increased chlorine use from polyquat but that isn't universal as far as I can tell. In that case you might not get a good OCLT with polyquat in the water - even if the water was free of algae.

Or you can just wing it - and skip the OCLT and hope the polyquat is sufficient protection for the winter and then shock in the spring if it is needed. I'd still raise the FC since 2 is too low for a CYA of 50.

Ideally - you'd - run up to shock levels - keep it there as per normal process until you pass the three criteria - this is particularly important since you let the FC drop below the minimum for your CYA. Then after passing the OCLT you'd let the chlorine drop a bit until closer to normal and then drop in the polyquat and wait 24 hours. Honestly only you can determine what steps you have time for - if you are in a pinch I'd just wing it as indicated above. The worst that happens is that you open to a pool that needs shocking. Open as soon as water temps drift up to 60 and you're likely to be ahead of it enough to not have problems. This assumes the water is at least 60 or less now. If it is higher then I strongly recommend the shock process first.

 

[DanaSC]

That answers my questions. Thanks for the response.

How close to normal levels should FC drop to? If 6 is recommended for CYA of 50, is 8 or 10 ok or should it really be 6 before we add the polyquat? I'm guessing it's going to take some amount of days to let the FC drop down since we're getting less sun on the pool and it's cooler, etc....so just trying to find out what it should be at.

That should be my last question hopefully!

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

That answers my questions. Thanks for the response.

How close to normal levels should FC drop to? If 6 is recommended for CYA of 50, is 8 or 10 ok or should it really be 6 before we add the polyquat? I'm guessing it's going to take some amount of days to let the FC drop down since we're getting less sun on the pool and it's cooler, etc....so just trying to find out what it should be at.

That should be my last question hopefully!

I think you'd be fine at 8-10; but I don't know that for certain. I do know that I tossed polyquat in my father-in-laws pool the day I was covering it (opaque safety cover) at a FC level of 12. The water was 68 degrees but my only real option for doing this was with a friend who was in from out of town. The chlorine has dropped to 6 over the past week; which could be due to interactions with a few leaves that didn't get out during the windy day covering - or could be related to the polyquat - or ???? I had already passed OCLT prior to covering. I've added another 2ppm of Chlorine and I'll check again in a few days.

 

[DanaSC]

Thanks for the help!

I've thought of another question. My CH is now at 200. Will it harm my pool if I don't bring it up to 220 before closing it? Poolcalculator said to add 11 lbs and I only added 10, so I knew I was taking a chance on it not being enough...but the things are sold by the 5lb container, so....

I've got pH under control and now I'm doing the OCLT.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Thanks for the help!

I've thought of another question. My CH is now at 200. Will it harm my pool if I don't bring it up to 220 before closing it? Poolcalculator said to add 11 lbs and I only added 10, so I knew I was taking a chance on it not being enough...but the things are sold by the 5lb container, so....

I've got pH under control and now I'm doing the OCLT.

What did the CSI turn out to be? That value informs you of the potential for problems.

Sent via Tapatalk...

 

[DanaSC]

What is CSl? Sorry...I don't recognize that term...

 

[duraleigh]

What is CSl? Sorry...I don't recognize that term...

Ahhh! Another chance for me to get back on the soapbox about CSI (calcium saturation index). It is a calculation you can perform to determine the POTENTIAL for scaling conditions in your pool water.

However, as long as you stay within the guidelines of water parameters here at TFP you will have no need to ever perform a CSI calculation.

My biggest problem with csi is it seems to add more complication to pool water management when the purpose of this forum is to SIMPLIFY your pool care.....not make it so complex you lose interest in what we teach.

I have never done a csi calculation on my pool nor do I intend to. Staying within the guidlines provided for pH, CH, TA will keep you pool water scale free and simplify your pool care.

PS - I should add that there is no harm in csi if you are predisposed to use it. Your level of testing and management will depend somewhat on what interests you. Some years ago, someone posted on the forum that they tested CH at least weekly because they liked the extra precision it gave them. I didn't agree with the logic but I sure loved selling the refills of R-0010, 11L, and 12

 

[DanaSC]

Okay - I researched CSI. I don't even remember reading this in Pool School (oops!). I just calculated mine on poolcalculator and it is -0.59. From what I'm seeing, that's fine, right? And if this number isn't correct, how do you fix it?

Another question...I've never used the temp of my pool before for any calculations because I only just discovered I have a thermometer that will get a good read of the pool temp. I noticed that the shock level is lower than the chart in Pool School says (it says for CYA of 50 shock is 20) on pool calc now that I added in my water temp. Is that why, because my water temp is 60 degrees, that the required level of chlorine is less to shock? If so, I know I'll for sure start using that temperature in all of my future calculations. I guess I'm still learning!

 

[DanaSC]

Oops. I guess my reading of -0.59 means that I could have problems. If that's correct, I need to add more calcium to get it closer to the 220 mark, right? I read it wrong on poolcalc. in my earlier post.

 

[DanaSC]

Ahhh! Another chance for me to get back on the soapbox about CSI (calcium saturation index). It is a calculation you can perform to determine the POTENTIAL for scaling conditions in your pool water.

However, as long as you stay within the guidelines of water parameters here at TFP you will have no need to ever perform a CSI calculation.

My biggest problem with csi is it seems to add more complication to pool water management when the purpose of this forum is to SIMPLIFY your pool care.....not make it so complex you lose interest in what we teach.

I have never done a csi calculation on my pool nor do I intend to. Staying within the guidlines provided for pH, CH, TA will keep you pool water scale free and simplify your pool care.

PS - I should add that there is no harm in csi if you are predisposed to use it. Your level of testing and management will depend somewhat on what interests you. Some years ago, someone posted on the forum that they tested CH at least weekly because they liked the extra precision it gave them. I didn't agree with the logic but I sure loved selling the refills of R-0010, 11L, and 12

That makes sense, what you're saying. But....I do see the value in me calculating that in this case where I'm asking if my CH of 200 can adversely affect my pool...that CSI shows that it would, right? I'm assuming that to bring the CSI to a better level, I'd need to get my CH to the recommended levels of at least 220...right? I'm with you, I don't want to always be testing CH. I typically only do it once a month or something to just be sure. Since we drained and refilled, I knew I had to test it and that's why I'm where I'm at now, trying to get it where it needs to be. I was just mainly trying to figure out if I needed to worry about it being at 200 instead of recommended 220...and it appears that it can hurt my pool if I don't get it up that little bit...

 

[duraleigh]

CH of 200 by itself is harmless. That's why I suggested you take three parameters (pH, TA, and CH) into account. YOur pool is fine as long as those three are within the guidelines suggested. I can't imagine what your other conditions are but they must be outside what is normal by a pretty good bit.

 

[DanaSC]

Okay. I can't give you current readings because I'm shocking, but last readings were:

ph: 7.4
TA: 70
CH: 200

With those, pool calc says -0.59 and -0.49 (is the 2nd one my goal??). What should be adjusted in these numbers that would make the CSI better? I played with the numbers a bit on pool calc and can't seem to figure out what would make it not have the "potential to become corrosive to plaster."

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Okay. I can't give you current readings because I'm shocking, but last readings were:

ph: 7.4
TA: 70
CH: 200

With those, pool calc says -0.59 and -0.49 (is the 2nd one my goal??). What should be adjusted in these numbers that would make the CSI better? I played with the numbers a bit on pool calc and can't seem to figure out what would make it not have the "potential to become corrosive to plaster."

What's the temp? Temperature has an impact on CSI as does CYA.

Yes -0.49 is your "goal" value matching what your index would be if the goals you set were current values. It is on the right of -0.59 - correct?. What are your goals set to right now?

Duraleigh far more experience than I do. I also have an all vinyl pool whereas he has a vinyl pool with tile around the top so his pool would be a bit more sensitive than mine to this and he's saying he has little concern over it.

BTW - My current numbers are similar to yours TA 70, CH 260, pH 7.6, temp 62 and my CSI comes out -0.31 - manipulating my CH or temp produces larger changes in the CSI than most other changes. CYA is ~ 50 btw.

 

[DanaSC]

I haven't been able to get pH yet because my FC hasn't dropped enough, so I"ll repost tomorrow when I'm able to get real numbers about that CSI stuff - I still have questions about that.

In the meantime, the how to winterize a pool article in Pool School just states that the PolyQuat is put in the pool the day of closing - it doesn't talk about running it for 24 hours. How crucial is the 24 hours?