No CYA!!!

[phipsi1237]

I finally got all my new equipment installed (Intelliflo VS, EasyTouch 8, Clean and Clear 420, IntellipH, IC-40, Intellibrite pool and spa light). I drained the pool due to the lights. Upon start up, I added liquid Chlorine, acid, salt, and Conditioner. This was last Sunday. I added enough CYA to bring it up to 60. I didn't want to go straight to 70-80 in case of an overshoot. Today, a week later, I'm still basically showing 0 CYA.

FC - 4
CC - 0
pH - 7.8
TA - 140
CH- 400
Salt - 3350
CYA - 0!!!!!!

I have the salt cell set to 60%. IntellipH is set to 1% until i get the TA down. The pump runs 23 hours a day. The water has never been clearer (which I account to the new filter with pump on low speed (1350 RPM).

The conditioner bought from Home Depot is "Pool Time." The last time I had issue with bad CYA was the stuff from Wal-Mart. Is it possible I've been duped by not getting Leslie's conditioner, again. I measured a few days ago expecting something to show up with a result of 0. So, I used a new bottle of reagent and tested again. Today I only tested once the older reagent. Either way, I'm coming up with 0. The conditioner was poured into the skimmer with a skimmer sock. I think I added the salt at about the same time.

Any ideas?

 

[flipflop]

If you're not sure about your conditioner (isn't it usually called stabilizer?), how about chlorinating with trichlor pucks for a while to raise CYA?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

What are the ingredients on this "conditioner" ? Could it be a borate type product instead of CYA ?

 

[duraleigh]

Is it possible I've been duped by not getting Leslie's conditioner, again.

So this is the second time you have dosed your pool with supposed CYA and got no result. When was the first? How did you resolve it?

Any chance of a testing error?

 

[JasonLion]

If the FC level is 4 during the day from the SWG alone, then CYA isn't anywhere near as low as zero. Assuming the test was done in the afternoon, I would look into the possibility of a testing error of some kind.

 

[phipsi1237]

Contents show 100% cya. I dosed it once last Sunday to 60. Then I'd increase to 70-80 later. I tested it earlier this week just to see. It was 0. Since I know everyone says wait a week, I tested again today. It's still showing 0. I'll test again in a bit with a newer bottle of reagent just to rule that out.

 

[duraleigh]

What reagent are you using? The Taylor CYA test (R-013) reagent is inert and not really subject to going bad.

 

[phipsi1237]

Using 2 different bottles of R-013, the dot is clearly visible when filled all the way to the top. I tested the FCC again and got 4.5. So, as Jason mentioned earlier, the SWG is keeping up at 60%, although I thought 60% would be high for an IC-40 on an 14.5k gal pool with the pump running 23 hours a day. Should I just give it a few more days to show up? Or, just be happy the SWG is easily keeping up.

 

[duraleigh]

Well I am still puzzled by your lack of CYA. How did you resolve it the first time it happened?

 

[phipsi1237]

The first time was with the wal-mart stuff. I think I just added the Leslie's conditioner. I have some left, so I'll add that to see what happens.

 

[dmanb2b]

The FC residual is puzzling. I was almost going to suggest checking for a leak if you have an autofill device, but not sure how the SWG would keep up.

 

[duraleigh]

The first time was with the wal-mart stuff. I think I just added the Leslie's conditioner. I have some left, so I'll add that to see what happens.

Well, I am not understanding. Did the Walmart stabilizer not register the first time? If so, why would you add it again?

Did you have any CYA in the pool before the drain to fix the light?

 

[phipsi1237]

Yes, the Wal-Mart stuff was added months ago to get the CYA from around 30 to 50. It didn't take, so I added Leslie's conditioner to get it to 50.

This time I drained in order to pull the lights and run the new ones. Upon start up, I added PoolTime conditioner from Home Depot because I was there buying salt. I added one five pound bottle to bring it to about 40, then another 40oz by volume to bring it up to 60. I had to do a little at a time since I was putting in the skimmer (skimmer has a sock on it).

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Yes, the Wal-Mart stuff was added months ago to get the CYA from around 30 to 50. It didn't take, so I added Leslie's conditioner to get it to 50.

This time I drained in order to pull the lights and run the new ones. Upon start up, I added PoolTime conditioner from Home Depot because I was there buying salt. I added one five pound bottle to bring it to about 40, then another 40oz by volume to bring it up to 60. I had to do a little at a time since I was putting in the skimmer (skimmer has a sock on it).

You use the term "conditioner" which isn't what CYA is usually referred to as so I keep wondering if you purchased the correct additive? Most products I've seen with CYA are labeled as "Stabilizers" or "stabilized chlorine."
I think there are products labeled as "conditioners" that are like water softening salts or perhaps borates. Do you think the Walmart product you purchased, and which didn't register a reading when testing CYA, might have been something like that actually?

 

[phipsi1237]

No. HTH stabilizer and conditioner. Plus, that doesn't explain why the PoolTime stuff isn't showing up. The Leslie's CYA is called conditioner as well. I added some of that I had left over to add 20ppm either yesterday or the day before. Going to see if that registers.

 

[phipsi1237]

Finally getting somewhere. Just tested the CYA. It's at about 40-50. Total CYA added should have brought it up to 80. I'll wait another week or so before adding any more.

Also, the FC has been climbing. 4, 5.5, 8.5. So, I just turned down the SCG from 60% to 45%.

On another note, I have tiny bubbles coming out one return. Is this from the SCG? Should I turn it off to make sure?

Thanks for everyone's replies. I guess I just wasn't waiting long enough on the CYA to take. Word of the day....Patience.

 

[chem geek]

On another note, I have tiny bubbles coming out one return. Is this from the SCG? Should I turn it off to make sure?

Those are probably hydrogen gas bubbles coming from the SWCG. Yes, you can turn off your SWCG and see if the bubbles stop, just to make sure you don't have an air leak somewhere in your suction line or pump basket.

 

[phipsi1237]

After adding 160oz of stabilizer, I still tested today a CYA of 40. So, I added the rest of the Leslie's stabilizer (16oz) and another 24oz of the pool time stabilizer. This should bring me up to a CYA of 60. I'll test again next week and see where we stand.

Other than that, I have the SCG down to 35%. I'm still trying to dial that in just right. That seems to be a tedious process in itself.

I've turned off the IntellipH while I work the TA down. pH wasn't rising fast enough with it on low setting. Be happy when I stop adjusting TA. Nice not having to touch bottles of MA.

Today's tests:

FC - 8
CC - 0
pH - 7.7 - added MA to bring to 7.2
TA - 100 - pH adjusted above
CYA - 40 - added CYA to bring to 60
CH - 350
Salt - 3350 - per the SCG

Everything is pretty stable. Should I keep working the TA down and the CYA up to TFP SCG recommendations? Or let it sit and see how it goes?

Thanks TFP for all the amazing people.

 

[dmanb2b]

Your TA will continue to decline as you manage PH with acid additions. If the rate of PH rise is not too bad, it's not something you need to urgently address. Let's see where CYA settles in 7 days from now, before you adjust any further.