The mismatched Intex cartridge pumps

[y_not]

I have come to understand that the reason Intex's cartridge pump+filter combos do such a poor job is because the pump, is mismatched to the cartridge size & filtering capacity of it's media.

Basically too much water flows through the cartridge, too fast, thus it can't catch everything.

Also, users have reported the cartridges themselves being of poor quality. My cartridge is an Intex original, shipped /w the pool. It seems quite durable as I'm able to wash it out regularly and it's pretty tough. However, I suspect that it's not getting all it could out of the water flow. It mostly filters in the bottom center of the pleat folds and very little on the rest of the pleats. I'm sure this is mostly due to the high water flow.

I believe that some users have ended up /w inferior cartridge brands that were even worse than what shipped originally with the pool. The ones in the stores seem to use an end cap design that isn't rubbery like this one, thus they won't seal as well, also the filter media appears to be thinner and lighter.

So I don't really think it's too horrible, other than being a measly 5sqft of filter media, no options available for more filtration area with my "A" type cartridge, as their is with the B type.

So until such time as I can afford a sand filter, I'll have to make do. I stumbled across a poster that stated they had blocked up a bit of the inlet hose going from the pool water, into the pump to be filtered, thus reducing the water flow & allowing the cartridge to filter better.
But I can't find that post again.

Does anyone know about this trick? Does it work? It won't burn up the pump will it, reducing it's flow like that?

Any help would be appreciated. Thx.

 

[PAGirl]

I had the best luck putting a knee high panty hose on the basket of the skimmer of my stock Intex filter pump. When Walmart put the 1600 GPH sand pump at $129. Last month, I jumped on it, even though it's near the end of the season and I was going to wait til next year. The difference was amazing. I believe they have gone down in price on Amazon, too. My guess is they are going to come out with a new model next year, that was a $100 drop in price.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Look for the thread called something like $10 slime bag. That can help immensely from what I read.

Another option might be to create a slurry of DE or cellulose DE substitute and coat the filter media with it before using it.

 

[y_not]

I had the best luck putting a knee high panty hose on the basket of the skimmer of my stock Intex filter pump.

That's exactly what I did, those cheapo 33c pairs of knee-highs in the egg containers @ Walnast. Except it was horrible over the skimmer basket, the water just flows around it anyway, at least in the non-deluxe skimmer that is. So I slipped 2 pairs over the filter itself. As per my sig.
Works great!

But I really think it only catches the bigger stuff, like bugs and leaves and such, it does get some smaller stuff, but I think the filter is finer still.

But it does keep my filter nice and clean of the major gunk, so it's super easy to clean off. I love it!!!

When Walmart put the 1600 GPH sand pump at $129. Last month, I jumped on it, even though it's near the end of the season and I was going to wait til next year. The difference was amazing.

Yeah, this is my eventual goal, except I want the 2650 model, because I plan on getting a much bigger pool before long. In fact I may even go with a Hayward if money allows, we'll see.

Yeah, I have been reading the threads from the upgraders and it sounds like it's a night and day difference.

I believe they have gone down in price on Amazon, too. My guess is they are going to come out with a new model next year, that was a $100 drop in price.

That's entirely possible, but I'm betting it's just end of season price breaks to move stock so it doesn't sit. But of course one can never know for sure on new model releases.

Look for the thread called something like $10 slime bag. That can help immensely from what I read.

Ironically I just finished reading that and bookmarked the pages of the sites that sell them.
I may do that, but I'm not sure how I'd put the bag over my return and make it easily removable like they did in that thread. I have yet to find any sort of pipe threading or what have you that matches what Intex used on the return.
If push comes to shove, I could just wrap a wire around the back end of the return, but that's a little difficult if I have to change it a lot, just thinking out loud here.

Another option might be to create a slurry of DE or cellulose DE substitute and coat the filter media with it before using it.

I actually went the cellulose media route. It sure started to clog up with junk, went from a bright white to a dark tan, but never brown or black. The pump design is so inefficient that it just clogged up mostly on one side, so I kept having to rotate the filter until finally it was too clogged and I had to rinse it off. I did that 2x and felt it was a waste beyond that, because I wasn't noticing a difference at all in the water and with the horrid design, it only filters down in the fold of the pleats, so it isn't a very efficient use of the cellulose media, as it all clumped up in the center and I could see the stuff down inside the clump was still pretty white. Yes, I used a slurry and it did fully cover the filter, just all hung out in the center of the pleats so it got thickest there. Fiber Clear is what I used, found it locally at $10 for a 3lb bag, GOOD DEAL I thought!! But when I went to pick it up, it turned out to be a 3/4lb bag... GRRR!! So I bought it anyway, desperate & dying to try to get clearer water.

I think the product works, just poorly in this filter, I'd go broke dumping it in there all the time. HAHA
I might try DE, it's about $15 for a 25lb box @ Walnasty, but I have heard bad things about breathing it and such, seems like a pain.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Someone else with that type of pool showed how they attached a slime bag, but I don't recall who...

 

[1380ken]

If you want to reduce the flow. Just don't clean the filter as often. It works better when it is dirty. I have two Intex A pumps in parallel and I clean them once a week. My 15'-4' Intex pool water is sparkling clean.

 

[y_not]

Really? WOW!
I thought that only applied to sand filters.

I was cleaning it daily, as I run it 24/7, but then I switched to cleaning it when the skimmer basket suction is reduced. IE. not pulling in the surface junk like it should. So that takes about 2 days or so, plus I listen to the sound of the pump motor and that tells me it needs cleaning.

Do you rotate the cartridges at all? As it likes to blast all the junk on the side with the intake/return hoses, the opposite side gets pool junk in the filter, but much, much less, maybe like 25% or so. Also, it concentrates the filtration more toward the bottom of the cartridge, instead of more or less evenly all over.

 

[linen]

One theory is that intex had to make those filters with a very low pressure drop to allow the undersized pumps (read cheap) to still move water, therefore the filters do not catch much....of course until they do (maybe when grass or other larger stuff gets caught), then they have no flow.

 

[1380ken]

I worked in a small start up company developing exhaust filters for diesel engines. I performed all the testing of the filters on a flow bench and on trucks. That being said I am still not an expert on filters as they are very complicated. Cartridge filters are cake filters. That means the filtering takes place on the dirt that is built up on the filter. Diesel exhaust filters are almost the same. A clean filter is a depth filter where the filtering is initially in the pores of the filter substrate. A depth filter will only catch large particles which clog the pores. Once the pores start clogging a layer of dirt builds up on the filter. This is called the cake layer and becomes the filter. It will catch much smaller particles.
Of corse if the pump can't move water thru the cake layer then it doesn't work well.

 

[y_not]

Makes good sense, thanks for the info everyone. Much appreciated, I will try to let it run longer & see what happens. Just don't want my skimmer going offline for the most part, as then the pool gets pretty nasty.

One question though, I thought the Intex pumps were too large for the square footage of the filter, not too small for the filter like you were saying. I know their pumps are pretty puny, least mine is, but it moves a lot of water for it's size, at least I think it does.

So which be it?

Thx.

 

[1380ken]

The Intex pump may be able to move a lot of water with no back pressure. I don't think that it can handle much back pressure.

 

[y_not]

OK, silly question, what is back pressure?
I could go Google it, but I feel it's a better use of my time to just ask the collective group of knowledge here.

I'm thinking it's a hydraulics word, describing the slight blockage I was talking about. IE. Increasing resistance on the water inlet path?

Do tell, very anxious to learn.
Thanks everyone for all your amazing knowledge. :-D

Also, I let her run till she was pretty crazy clogged up, maybe about 3-4days with a heavy swimmer load. I pulled the plug & cleaned it, she was making a lot more noise and flow was greatly reduced on the return, not 50%, but quite significant. If I keep this thing, I'll mod it with a pressure gauge.

Don't really know if it was filtering any better or not, I suppose it was a moot point by then, as the flow was so greatly reduced. Thinking that your right in your hypothesis that this pump can't handle much caking of the filter.

The water gets REAAAAALLLY cloudy white whenever swimmers go in it for an extended period of time, say a few hours with 2 or 3 tweens. So it was busy clearing that up. Is that pretty normal, what causes that?
Keep in mind the pool is barely 3300gal at fill capacity.

 

[Shibiwan]

Yes.... "Resistance" is the best description of backpressure.

 

[y_not]

Affirmative dear captain.
Resistance is futile.

Thank you.

 

[1380ken]

Your pool should not be getting cloudy just because of a couple of swimmers. My kids swim in the pool all day with the filter off and it does not get cloudy. I just get dirt on the bottom of the pool from them getting in and out. You need to check your pools chemistry.

 

[linen]

1380ken is right about the cloudiness. If you want, post your latest test numbers and we can help diagnose. We would need FC, CC, ph, TA, CH, cya.

 

[Shibiwan]

Affirmative dear captain.
Resistance is futile.

Thank you.

Captain? I'm a relative pool noob around here too.

 

[y_not]

Affirmative dear captain.
Resistance is futile.

Thank you.

Captain? I'm a relative pool noob around here too.

It was a StarTrek reference. You don't watch it I take it?

 

[y_not]

1380ken is right about the cloudiness. If you want, post your latest test numbers and we can help diagnose. We would need FC, CC, ph, TA, CH, cya.

It'll have to wait till I get my TF-100 kit, just using a lame OTO/pH block ATM. I say lame because it's a cheapo one that shouldn't even be on the market. For $0-15 it shouldn't suck so bad!! But it does.

I read on the FiberClear product PDF that if you add bleach to your water and it turns cloudy right where you pour it, that this indicates high calcium, which I suspect is why our water leaves white spots here. When I do pour in the bleach, it turns really murky, like a liquid gas cloud, I just thought that was normal. Is it not?

Hoping to order the TF-100 today. Can't WAIT!!!!

Your pool should not be getting cloudy just because of a couple of swimmers. My kids swim in the pool all day with the filter off and it does not get cloudy. I just get dirt on the bottom of the pool from them getting in and out. You need to check your pools chemistry.

I suspected this, but very good to know.
What's your pool and filter Ken? I don't see anything in your sig.

 

[y_not]

Well... apparently my flow rate has been greatly reduced for probably a week or 2 as it is. I wondered why my skimmer wasn't sucking in the leaves at the rate it used to, barely a vortex anymore, even ran it with no cartridge for a few minutes and almost no change.

Just found the problem, little ball of hair and leaves in the large grid, plastic screen on the intake port of the sidewall to the pump, where the skimmer basket hose connects.

Shut it down, pulled off the hose on the inside, unscrewed the hose barb adapter and then pulled it out. Checked the pump inlet/outlet ports too, but nothing stuck there, no screen on the pump housing inlet.
Fired it back up and for the 1st time since I setup the pool, the skimmer floating ring is actually spinning as the water propels it from being sucked in and across the veins. I knew all along that had to be what those veins were for, but I just assumed mine was warped or something.

YAYYYYYY!!!
I is so happy!!

Now she can actually do some decent pumping.