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Thread: Shocking

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    Shocking

    How do you know how much bleach you need to shock the pool? I have an octagon vinyl pool. About 16000 gal. Thanks for the info.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    That is mostly determined by the amount of CYA you have in your pool. Post a full set of test results and help will be on the way. If you know your #'s, you can use Jason's Pool Calculator (link in my sig) to calculate the amount of chlorine needed to shock.

    Also, great info in the "Stickies" section located at the top of the page in the sub-headings.

    Try this one for now:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=3662

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    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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  3. Back To Top    #3
    I just came in from testing it. I only have a basic test kit. The clorine tested high (above 3.0) and i am still in the add soda ash on the PH side (i have added 3 borax of borax this week). I did test the CYA and it was 80. The pool is pretty green. I am trying hard to do this without going to the pool company but I have been battling this for over a week. I am slowing beginning to think I am not going to understand all this.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

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    Hey, Shannon, Good Morning!

    First of all, your knowledge of pools may well already exceed what you'll hear at the pool store. You can do this...just keep asking questions and the good folks on this forum will help....as much as you need to get your pool clear.

    Right off the bat, your CYA looks pretty high and has probably been a big factor. However, the first thing we'll need is some good test results so we'll have a baseline from which to start.

    Visit the pool store as soon as you can and get a set of current test results you can post up here. Ideally, you want them to give you FC, CC, TC, pH, Alk, CYA, and CH....Free chlorine, Combined Chloramines, Total Chlorine, pH, Alkalinity, CYA (also called stabilizer) and Calcium Hardness.

    Get those posted up for us (don't buy anything) and we'll get that pool cleared up and you'll have gained a great understanding of your water
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  5. Back To Top    #5
    ok, back from the pool company. here are the current numbers:

    temp 70
    saturation index -3.8
    tds not tested
    cya 100
    tot chlorine 4.3
    free chlorine 3.4
    ph >6.2
    tot alkalinity 10
    adj total alk 0
    tot hardness 85
    quat not tested

    i did call my husband about the chlorine being so high. He said he dumped a bucket of choline in the pool this morning trying to help (we have some granular chlorine we are trying to use up) but we dont have to use it. I would rather learn to do it the BBB way. It is green. I put a bottle of 50% algaecide on Tuesday and another on Wednesday.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    You need to get the PH up to at least 7.0 right away! Low PH can damage the liner and a heater (if you have one).

    CYA is too high and because of that you need a very high FC level. Replacing water to bring CYA down is the best approach.

    You should get a good test kit. That can help you avoid problems like this in the future. I recommend the TF Test Kit.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7
    the pool calc said i should add 960 oz of borax! Is that right? Replacing the water is not an option because we are under a water ban. Any other way to do it. I put the info from my sheet in the calculator but I am not sure how to add it. I have looked at the stickies and cant find an "order of operation" list.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Shannon, I think that is 96 ounces! Go ahead and get your pH up now.

    The CYA issue is something else. Being 100 (or possibly higher) and unable to drain........we'll just have to wait for the gurus to chime in!

    The 'order of operations', well, check this for now:

    Jason's stickey on clearing a green pool:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=4147

    More help is on the way
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Well I am not the Guru that jj was speaking of but if you are unable to do a part drain then you will just have to run higher cl in your pool, I ran my pool with a cya of 100 a couple years back, I just kept the cl number up due to a high cya. Then when ever you are able to do a drain then worry about that, but you do need to get that PH up NOW!!!!!
    With high CYA you will want to use the chart in this post:




    http://www.troublefreepool.com/viewtopic.php?t=2346
    27' Round AG, 17,200 gallons, sand filter

  10. Back To Top    #10
    back washed to dump as much water as I could (not a whole lot) and put the water hose in. I dont know what good it will do. I cant use too much water. I have put 6 boxes of borax in over the day. The only thing that is happening is the water is getting cloudy. The PH has not budged. Should I put some more algaecide in? When i just did the test the color of the chlorine side was very light yellow (this AM was bright yellow). Any suggestions are appreciated.

    Another question. Just curious: on print out from pool company is said my CYA is 100, But in the "ideal" column it list the CYA should be 30-200. What is the real "ideal" number I should shoot for?
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannonpb2
    back washed to dump as much water as I could (not a whole lot) and put the water hose in. I dont know what good it will do. I cant use too much water. I have put 6 boxes of borax in over the day. The only thing that is happening is the water is getting cloudy. The PH has not budged. Should I put some more algaecide in? When i just did the test the color of the chlorine side was very light yellow (this AM was bright yellow). Any suggestions are appreciated.

    Another question. Just curious: on print out from pool company is said my CYA is 100, But in the "ideal" column it list the CYA should be 30-200. What is the real "ideal" number I should shoot for?
    Shannon,

    The algaecide will do little if any good. Save your money for more effective stuff.

    "ideal" for CYA in your pool would be 40-50. 100 is w-a-a-y to high but there are ways to deal with it.

    Right now, your priority has got to be to get your pH up above 6.8. It was disastrously low if you have already consumed that much borax but you can't stop now. pH below 6.8 has the potential to damage a lot of things in your pool and it must be corrected.

    Once your pH is around 7.0, you are gonna' need a lot of clorox to get the green out of your pool and I mean A LOT! 30-50 gallons wouldn't surprise me....depends on how "green" your pool really is. I think you're better off to address that issue once your pH isw in line. Keep us posted.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Shannon, until we find out more, I vote to NOT add any more algaecide.

    Most folks shoot for a CYA of 30 to 50 for NON-SWG pools, and 60 to 80 for SWG.

    Seems there is a CYA reducer product somewhere. I have no idea, but someone here will know.

    If you could include ALL your pool and equipment information in your signature, it would be a big help to those answering your questions.

    Would you please verify that your TA is actually 10 (ten)? I'm thinking you need some baking soda to raise the TA, but let's wait on someone more knowledgable about that.

    In the meantime, please read the following Stickey. You can scroll down to TA - Total Alkalinity:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=2375
    Attached Files Attached Files
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13
    i bought all the borax walmart had. Husband is going to the next town over to get some more. I am adding another box every 30 mins and testing.

    I double checked my paper from the pool co. Tot. Alk is 10 and Adj Tot Alk is 0.

    I have printed every sticky I can find.

    Husband said there are leaves on the bottom of the pool. He is going to get them out when he gets home. So I hope that will help with the algae problem some.

    I dont now much about the "equipment" we have but I will include the following info in my sig.
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    I agree that it is important to know the true Total Alkalinity (TA) number. If it's really 10 (and not 100), then using a pH Up product would be the way to go to get the pH up since it will also increase the TA as well. pH Up is identical to Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda (careful: not the laundry detergent) in case you wanted to get the store product instead (it's usually cheaper) and is also known as Soda Ash or Sodium Carbonate. If I assume the pH is 6.2 and the TA is 10, then for 16,000 gallons adding 6.6 pounds (about 11-1/2 cups) of pH Up / Soda Ash / Arm & Hammer Washing Soda will raise the pH to 7.5 and the TA to 57. I'd suggest adding about half that amount, wait an hour, then retest the pH to see where you are at. If the pH registers around 6.9, then add the second half (if it's higher, then report back and we'll let you know how much less to add).

    Since you already bought 20 Mule Team Borax, then you can use that instead and it will take about twice as much by weight, so around 13.2 pounds (about 25 cups or almost 3 boxes since each weighs 76 ounces) of Borax to raise the pH to 7.5. Again, add about half the required amount and retest the pH after an hour to see where you stand. The Borax will raise the TA to around 35 ppm (if you added the full amount) so you can later add some Baking Soda to increase the TA further (about 15 cups of Baking Soda will increase the TA from 35 to 78 and will also raise the pH some to 7.64).

    I suspect that you were using Trichlor tabs/pucks and that got the pH and TA low due to its high acidity. This would also explain the high CYA level since with Trichlor for every 10 ppm FC that they add, they also increase CYA by 6 ppm.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Guest
    You have been using trichlor tabs and have not monitored your pH OR TA, correct? This is how you ended up with low pH and no measurable TA (all the bicarbonate has been converted to carbonic acid) I would go to the grocery store and get some Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda from the Laundry aisle. It will raise your pH AND TA rather quickly. You will need about 1/2 the amount of this compared to the amount of borax you need. My suggestion would be to first take a deep breath.
    Now add two lbs of the washing soda (btw, this is EXACTLY the same as pH increaser. It is also called soda ash or Sal Soda.) Wait about 1 hour with the pump running and test your pH. If it's still below 7.0 add another two lbs, wait about an hour and test again. Once you get your pH above 7.0 test your TA. You will need MUCH LESS of the washing soda than if you use borax and baking soda. THIS is the one case where washing soda (or pH increaser) IS the proper choice.
    for testing the pH do not use strips, If you don't have a good test kit then get a cheap 2 way drop test for about $7. It will be your best choice for monitoring the pH right now.
    Once you get the pH inline then we can tackle the rest.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    I agree that it is important to know the true Total Alkalinity (TA) number. If it's really 10 (and not 100), then using a pH Up product would be the way to go to get the pH up since it will also increase the TA as well. pH Up is identical to Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda (careful: not the laundry detergent) in case you wanted to get the store product instead (it's usually cheaper) and is also known as Soda Ash or Sodium Carbonate. If I assume the pH is 6.2 and the TA is 10, then for 16,000 gallons adding 6.6 pounds (about 11-1/2 cups) of pH Up / Soda Ash / Arm & Hammer Washing Soda will raise the pH to 7.5 and the TA to 57. I'd suggest adding about half that amount, wait an hour, then retest the pH to see where you are at. If the pH registers around 6.9, then add the second half (if it's higher, then report back and we'll let you know how much less to add).

    Since you already bought 20 Mule Team Borax, then you can use that instead and it will take about twice as much by weight, so around 13.2 pounds (about 25 cups or almost 3 boxes since each weighs 76 ounces) of Borax to raise the pH to 7.5. Again, add about half the required amount and retest the pH after an hour to see where you stand. The Borax will raise the TA to around 35 ppm (if you added the full amount) so you can later add some Baking Soda to increase the TA further (about 15 cups of Baking Soda will increase the TA from 35 to 78 and will also raise the pH some to 7.64).

    I suspect that you were using Trichlor tabs/pucks and that got the pH and TA low due to its high acidity. This would also explain the high CYA level since with Trichlor for every 10 ppm FC that they add, they also increase CYA by 6 ppm.

    Richard
    I looked all over town- could not find the A& H soda ash. bought more borax to add. We have added a total of 11 boxes and the PH is still the same. I will test again before we go to bed. Bought bleach and baking powder so I can add it once we get the PH up. I found a kit I bought from Pool Solutions. It never came with directions and the chemicals are over a year old but I figured it was better than nothing. The Alk did test at 10. I appreciate all the help.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    You have been using trichlor tabs and have not monitored your pH OR TA, correct? This is how you ended up with low pH and no measurable TA (all the bicarbonate has been converted to carbonic acid) I would go to the grocery store and get some Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda from the Laundry aisle. It will raise your pH AND TA rather quickly. You will need about 1/2 the amount of this compared to the amount of borax you need. My suggestion would be to first take a deep breath.
    Now add two lbs of the washing soda (btw, this is EXACTLY the same as pH increaser. It is also called soda ash or Sal Soda.) Wait about 1 hour with the pump running and test your pH. If it's still below 7.0 add another two lbs, wait about an hour and test again. Once you get your pH above 7.0 test your TA. You will need MUCH LESS of the washing soda than if you use borax and baking soda. THIS is the one case where washing soda (or pH increaser) IS the proper choice.
    for testing the pH do not use strips, If you don't have a good test kit then get a cheap 2 way drop test for about $7. It will be your best choice for monitoring the pH right now.
    Once you get the pH inline then we can tackle the rest.
    We just opened the pool and haven't really monitored anything past the initial test I did with my chlorine/ph test kit. DH put chlorine in it that is as far as we got. Thanks for the help! Much appreciated.
    Shannon
    18,000 gallon octagon vinyl liner pool. Sand filter. Main drain closed.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Shannon,

    You said you bought bleach and baking powder, but you meant baking soda, right?

    Know this is a stressful time for you, but it will all work out soon. It takes a little time to get a handle on a pool with these issues, but you'll get it done.

    Just keep posting back and someone will help you
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  19. Back To Top    #19
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    The common PH test will show any number lower than 6.8 as 6.8, so it is difficult to know just how low the PH really was/is.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Shannon,

    Something's not adding up for me. For your pH not to have moved after 44lbs of baking soda is, to say the least, astonishing.

    That would make your previous pH somewhere around 1.0....I'm not sure youcould stick you hand in something that low.

    I suggest you confirm you pH reading by obtaining another test result from the pool store.

    EDIT: should've said "borax" not "baking soda"
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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