I have lost three Jandy Serial Adaptors due to electrical storms. Has anybody had success using an optical isolator.
Jandy RS Serial Adaptor - Optical Isolation
- Thread starter pgershon
- Start date
Looked at placing something on 485 end and on 232 end. Not sure which is more important
User bsnelson had an excellent thread about surge protection http://www.troublefreepool.com/jandy-aqualink-rs-surge-protection-t47950.html
Strangely, there was not much response to the thread. Hopefully people have taken note. Even with the new wireless iAqualink, I believe it would be a good idea to isolate at least the RS side of the connection.
I am still deciding if I would choose opto isolation over surge protection but I do know that the Jandy protector is not an option for myself.
~art
bsnelson said:I've had a Jandy Aqualink RS system controlling my pool and spa for over 12 years. Twice during that period, a (very) nearby lightening strike has knocked out the RS-485 comm between the main board and my two indoor controllers (one, a real Jandy RS; the other, a RS-485 to RS-232 converter from the same company mentioned below) and by "knocked out", I mean that it "fried" something on each device (visibly on the indoor controller in the form of a burned surface mount device). Both times, I got used replacement boards from eBay, but it's still a pretty spendy proposition, plus the converter is another $70.
After doing some research and briefly considering installing the "official" Jandy surge protector (I rejected that idea since it only claims to protect against power surges, not lightening), I decided to go with a different surge protector. I used the 485HESP from B&B Electronics, placing one between the wire and indoor controller, and one between the wire and main board inside the power center box. These units are $109 each, but if they can save me from having to buy more equipment, it'll be more than worth it. I also employed the services of an electrician to install them as there were grounding concerns and, well, it was only $90 and sometimes it's worth that to not have to hassle with it myself.
I didn't take photos (didn't think about it until afterward), but the indoor unit was installed in the wall behind the Jandy controller (before the wire splits to go to my RS-232 converter), after basically cutting out a big enough hole in the drywall to fit it in. Ground was available there from a nearby light switch. In the power center, the device was installed in the bottom of the box below the relays, and grounded to the ground bus bar that was already installed. The system started normally on the first try after buttoning everything up.
So, I guess I won't know if it worked until we have another big lightening strike, which, of course, I hope never happens.I'll update this thread if I have any more info (good or bad), but for now, at least I know that the approach works for what us software guys call the "happy path". Hopefully I'm protected from the other as well.
Brad
Strangely, there was not much response to the thread. Hopefully people have taken note. Even with the new wireless iAqualink, I believe it would be a good idea to isolate at least the RS side of the connection.
I am still deciding if I would choose opto isolation over surge protection but I do know that the Jandy protector is not an option for myself.
~art
BTW, what model serial adapter do you have?
Jandy model 7270 appears to be replaceable with a $15 USB to RS-485 adapter for computer control, see this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/cont...nt-from-your-pc-with-a-15-adapter-t28409.html
Jandy model 7620 is more complicated but I would like to know if it can be replaced with the Autelis control: http://www.autelis.com/homeautomation/pool-spa.html to interface with home automation like Homeseer.
Jandy model 7270 appears to be replaceable with a $15 USB to RS-485 adapter for computer control, see this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/cont...nt-from-your-pc-with-a-15-adapter-t28409.html
Jandy model 7620 is more complicated but I would like to know if it can be replaced with the Autelis control: http://www.autelis.com/homeautomation/pool-spa.html to interface with home automation like Homeseer.
I have the 7620 (waiting for shipment of my fourth). The 7270 is a completely different device. The 7270 sends native Jandy code from the 485 to the 232 interface. There is nothing to do with the native code except use Jandy's PC software which simulates a one touch (I have done this with my system). The 7620 is much more sophisticated. It hooks into the Jandy 485 on one side and it hooks into a 232 serial port on the other side. However, rather than transmitting and receiving native Jandy code, instead it translates into simple text commands that simulate pretty much everything the Jandy does. I have the 7620 hooked into my Indigo Mac system for pool control. Recently I added the iAqualink as I got a very good price (sub $200) and it seems to be more resistant to surges. I do not know the Autelis system although it looks interesting from your link.
As for surge issues, I have the Jandy surge protection kit and it has not saved my Serial Adaptors. The surge protection is at the power board, which is more than 100 feet from my Serial Adaptor, which I am sure is the problem. My instincts are to put an optical isolator between the run from the pool and the multiplex which runs to the Serial Adaptor and the iAqualink. Putting something between the Serial Adaptor and my PC does not seem like it helps with the problem.
As for surge issues, I have the Jandy surge protection kit and it has not saved my Serial Adaptors. The surge protection is at the power board, which is more than 100 feet from my Serial Adaptor, which I am sure is the problem. My instincts are to put an optical isolator between the run from the pool and the multiplex which runs to the Serial Adaptor and the iAqualink. Putting something between the Serial Adaptor and my PC does not seem like it helps with the problem.
The surge protector mentioned by bsnelson is about $110 but much more effective than the Jandy because it is a discharge tube design.
He recommends one on each end. I am still looking into optic isolators and how they would be installed. I understand they are an "active" device & require a power supply (which may be prone to surge failures itself).
The Autelis forum http://www.autelis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21&sid=0349ae6de7c47e359ecfb1aeda531fb0 has users that are interfacing with Indigo. May be an affordable option ($269.00) that can be wireless resulting in less chance of failures due to the short cable length and no physical connection to the computer. Have you found a reasonable price for the Jandy 7620? I am looking for one because I cannot find a way to interface the Autelis with Homeseer.
He recommends one on each end. I am still looking into optic isolators and how they would be installed. I understand they are an "active" device & require a power supply (which may be prone to surge failures itself).
The Autelis forum http://www.autelis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21&sid=0349ae6de7c47e359ecfb1aeda531fb0 has users that are interfacing with Indigo. May be an affordable option ($269.00) that can be wireless resulting in less chance of failures due to the short cable length and no physical connection to the computer. Have you found a reasonable price for the Jandy 7620? I am looking for one because I cannot find a way to interface the Autelis with Homeseer.
This Autelis product looks very interesting. If I did not already have the serial adaptor and the iAqualink I might try it.
Personally I would recommend the iAqualink as a way to interface with the Jandy stuff if you can get it at a good price. The good thing (if there was one) about my lightening strike last year is that my Jandy Rev was upped to QQ. This made it cheap to go from QQ to R for the iAqualink. If I did not already have the Serial Adaptor, I would not bother with it.
Having said that, I wish there were more people who were interesting in discussing how they protect their Serial Adaptor. My experience in two years with it is that the device is highly sensitive, I wish there was a known way to protect it better. I may just buy the optical isolator for 485 and give it a try. Seems logical.
I am not worry about the power source for it. I can plug it in. It is not my regular power causing the problems but the long 485 run (i think).
Personally I would recommend the iAqualink as a way to interface with the Jandy stuff if you can get it at a good price. The good thing (if there was one) about my lightening strike last year is that my Jandy Rev was upped to QQ. This made it cheap to go from QQ to R for the iAqualink. If I did not already have the Serial Adaptor, I would not bother with it.
Having said that, I wish there were more people who were interesting in discussing how they protect their Serial Adaptor. My experience in two years with it is that the device is highly sensitive, I wish there was a known way to protect it better. I may just buy the optical isolator for 485 and give it a try. Seems logical.
I am not worry about the power source for it. I can plug it in. It is not my regular power causing the problems but the long 485 run (i think).
I've heard of some people using the bb electronics isolator when connecting between Jandy and the serial port of home automation equipment.
http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?familyid=1
http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?familyid=1
So I purchased and received a 485OP unit. Not sure how to hook it up to the Jandy 4 wire (red, yellow, green black)? There are 8 inputs and outputs on the 485OP
i believe it would be hooked up between the Jandy serial adapter and your home automation equipment. I'd put it closer to the home automation equipment if i were installing it.
Actually it should go between the jandy system and the serial adaptor (it is 485, not RS232). That being said, I do not understand how to wire it. There are four Jandy wires and 8 terminals on the 485OP.
Looks like my 7270 converter burned out. I cannot control with my PC anymore - worked fine for years. Wiring is in good shape as I can plug in my OneTouch panel to the wiring and it works fine. Emailed Zodiac (I know) just to see what they say and they said call a professional to run a voltage test and verify wiring is correct. Yeah. I'll get right on that.
The 7270 adapter gets hot by the soldering points of the 4-wire connector - not sure if it did that before. Anyway, I ordered the 485-232 adapter. Hopefully that solves the issue. If so, no need for further isolation since those adapters are cheap enough to replace. The main one-touch is protected by a local power company surge protector on the main meter and the Jandy surge protector on the pool pad subpanel. Will report back. Thanks!
The 7270 adapter gets hot by the soldering points of the 4-wire connector - not sure if it did that before. Anyway, I ordered the 485-232 adapter. Hopefully that solves the issue. If so, no need for further isolation since those adapters are cheap enough to replace. The main one-touch is protected by a local power company surge protector on the main meter and the Jandy surge protector on the pool pad subpanel. Will report back. Thanks!
Do you know what the wiring would be for the four Jandy wires to this adapter: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-DB92 ... pd_cp_pc_2
HofstraJet said:Do you know what the wiring would be for the four Jandy wires to this adapter: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-DB92 ... pd_cp_pc_2
Assuming you are trying to replace the 7270 (not the Serial Adaptor) with a generic 485 to 232 converter, I can partially help you. The Yellow is + and the Green is -, while the Black is ground and the Red is Power. I think for your adaptor, you connect the Yellow to DATA + and the GREEN to DATA - and the BLACK to GND. Red would be left out. It is possible that the Yellow might connect to both TXD+ and RXD+, while Green would connect to TXD- and RXD-.
I have an old 7270 and could look around for it if you like, although your email suggested you have one. I would look and see how the red is connected, if at all.
Thanks. The 7270 has the standard Jandy 4 pin connector on the 485/232 connector so there is a spot for each wire. I will look on the 7270 and see if I can follow the path on the board to see what pin on the DB9 it leads to and then find out how the 25 pin gets reduced to a 9 pin. Trial and error may be quicker! LOL
pgershon said:
The isolator should be wired like example 6 in the quick start guide http://www.bb-elec.com/bb-elec/literature/485OP-1510qsg.pdf. The left side in the guide would go to the Jandy comtroller board, and the right side to the serial adapter. Don't connect the hot wire of the four wires to the isolator at all, and connect a wire from the 'prot ground' on the right side in the diagram to metal part of the case of the serial adapter.
pgershon said:
Thank you, pgershon. It works!!!
As you thought, I had to connect the yellow to both TXD+ and RXD+ while green is connected to both TXD- and RXD-. Red and Black are not connected (I started with black to ground and while the software said it established communication with the power center, it went no further). Then I connected a DB9 straight-through cable to my serial port and it works perfectly. So a big
to this forum and a big :grrrr: to Jandy/Zodiac for charging several hundred dollars for a connector that costs $13.
Here are the parts I used:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0037E ... os_product
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A7 ... os_product
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