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Thread: Conflicting Algae Advice. Pool Store vs Internet

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    Conflicting Algae Advice. Pool Store vs Internet

    I know what I read on this forum is correct, but I don't understand how the pool store people could get their philosophy.
    Pool Store (PS): How to kill your algae not to clorinate, and turn off the SWG. Put in this algeciede ($, yes I got that part) and 48hrs until the algae dies. Vacuum and scrub and filter. THEN shock and cl. They said Cl and shock isn't good enough for mustard algae (which my wife thinks we have, but I doubt).

    Here is what happened :
    My wife listened to me and went overboard because "you cant overshock". She dumped 17 jugs of 6% bleach into my 2400kgal pool. CL went up to about 5 for 4 hours and back down to zero. CYA level ~50. Overcast day. Her response was, "I am done guessing. The pool store was right". She is now following their advice.

    Current:
    FC:0, TC:0, CYA high at 100,
    PH way high at 7.8 (liquid test = 7.8, strips hard to read but could be max at 8.2),
    Alk 180, TH 100, salt at 2800 ppm
    StrikeOut algecide (7.41% copper) added.

    Comments? Predictions? Warnings?

    Thanks in Advance,
    Raymond McGill
    "live a lie, you'll live to regret it"

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Hi, Ray,

    Welcome to the forum.

    You are in for a long summer of all kinds of potential problems until you and your wife are on the same wavelength.

    The poolstore's advice does not make very good sense but it's pointless to contradict it if one or both of you are convinced that their path is the correct one to follow.

    Armed with a really good test kit, there is no guesswork on the methods used on this forum and you can get your pool in shape for a great summer.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Hi Ray and Welcome

    If you continue to do the pool store dance, you will continue to get pool-stored

    The BEST investment we made in our pool was a good test kit, like the TF 100 sold here by duraleigh, Dave.

    We are constantly amazed at the amount of money our pool DOES NOT cost to run.

    Here's hoping you folks decide to take control of your pool.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    At very high CYA levels there is some point to using YellowTreat and similar products. However, a far better long term solution is to lower the CYA level and use chlorine. Chlorine will always work, but at high CYA levels you need huge amounts of chlorine. The pool store approch can also have serious problems and often makes things worse if you don't follow the directions exactly and then follow up with large amounts of chlorine.

    Replace some water to get your CYA level down and everything will get much simpler.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    A word of advice when it comes to Salt chlorine generators and algae, especially mustard algae. Most treatments suggested from pool stores include a specialty algaecide that includes YELLOW or MUSTARD in the name. These are usually sodium bromide based algaecides. Sodium bromide in a salt generator pool will regenerate bromine and cause problems with free chlorine residuals within a week or two.

    These treatments usually recommend that you shock the pool with the treatment, then again after a few days.

    The pool store is correct in turning off the salt system. However, avoiding these algaecides in the first place is best. In the event that you end up with algae, using regular chlorine to shock the pool, brush the algae (a stainless steel wall brush is best), then vaccuming it to waste, should clean it up.

    BTW, what did you use to shock the pool?

    You indicated that your pool was 2400K gallons...do you mean 24,000 gallons or 2,400 gallons?
    Either way, you would need to add alot of cyanuric acid for it to jump from ~ 50 ppm to over 100 ppm. Bleach does not have any cya.

    There's got to be something else added to your pool that is missing from this post...
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  6. Back To Top    #6
    tagprod's Avatar
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    I think you need to kick the wife out for a week while you get your algae under grips.
    Brian
    20K IG Gunite w/ raised 7ft spillover spa. 1.5 HP Hayward Northstar pump 425 sq ft Hayward cartridge filter, Colorlogic lights AquaRite SWG AquaLogic PS-8 control
    1hp pump for sheer descent

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Just a quick note from me. (It didn't turn out to be so quick, sorry)

    I was POOL STORED for 9 years. Yes, 9 years. Costing me literally thousands of dollars over those 9 years, and my pool chemistry was really never even close. I had a clear pool, but chemistry was way off, and it costed me a lot to keep it clear, while make my problems (CYA) bigger.

    Listen to the folks in this forum. Do what they say to do. It's really not hard at all, and is VERY CLEAR and easy, once you get that basic understanding. There is NO GUESSWORK.

    Today, my pool has PERFECT chemistry. Much better than any day of the past 9 years, included the first fill day 9 years ago. Actually much better. My fill water has high TA.

    Oh yea, my chemical cost this year is the 18 or so jugs of bleach to clean up the pea soup (algae) from the winter and last year, and a few gallons of acid to correct the TA. That is all. I have put NO chemicals in my pool in the past 3 weeks or so. I do have a newly purchased\installed SWG, which I love. I anticipate using VERY LITTLE chemicals this year, and NONE FROM THE POOL STORE, NONE. It puts a knot in my stomach every time I drive by the pool store, really does.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

    Mister Mister
    IG 18 x 36 Vinyl
    30,000 Gallons
    AutoPilot SWG
    Aquabot T2
    Hayward S244 Sand Filter
    Hayward 1hp RS1000 Pump
    ------------------
    Leisure Bay Spa - Flores - 500 Gallons
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  8. Back To Top    #8

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    And one more thing. (Sorry, I get a little fired up when getting Pool Stored is the topic)

    Get a good test kit. I love my TF100. It puts YOU (and the wife maybe) in control of YOUR pool. Not the people who want to make money off of you. With any set of chemistry numbers, there are pretty much set ways to get to an acceptable set of numbers.

    Ok, I'm done now. Happy swimming.

    Mister Mister
    IG 18 x 36 Vinyl
    30,000 Gallons
    AutoPilot SWG
    Aquabot T2
    Hayward S244 Sand Filter
    Hayward 1hp RS1000 Pump
    ------------------
    Leisure Bay Spa - Flores - 500 Gallons
    AutoPilot SpaPilot - Not Yet Installed

  9. Back To Top    #9
    ivyleager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    (a stainless steel wall brush is best),
    Well, only if it's not vinyl or fiberglass! I don't think the poster has indicated what kind of pool he has.

    CaryB
    CaryB
    36 x 18 IG vinyl, 25K, 1 HP pump, sand filter
    1 skimmer, 2 returns, no main drain
    Old school: PoolSolutions test kit

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    It seems like USA is in a great need of decent pool stores who don't shaft their customers

    Might be a great business idea if i ever decide to move over the ditch

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    CaryB,

    You're correct. Thanks for catching that.

    You bag a wild turkey in less than 4 hrs, a hockey fan, AND catch the details we miss.
    Your husband is a lucky man!
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  12. Back To Top    #12
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    Re: Conflicting Algae Advice. Pool Store vs Internet

    Quote Originally Posted by raymcgill
    I know what I read on this forum is correct, but I don't understand how the pool store people could get their philosophy.
    Pool Store (PS): How to kill your algae not to clorinate, and turn off the SWG. Put in this algeciede ($, yes I got that part) and 48hrs until the algae dies. Vacuum and scrub and filter. THEN shock and cl. They said Cl and shock isn't good enough for mustard algae (which my wife thinks we have, but I doubt).

    Here is what happened :
    My wife listened to me and went overboard because "you cant overshock". She dumped 17 jugs of 6% bleach into my 2400kgal pool.
    THAT is a big pool, 2400000 gallons! I think you have a typo here, I assume you mean 24kgal or 24000 gal. Assuming the normal 96 oz jug of 6% this would bring your FC to around 37-38 ppm which is around the bottom limit of effetiveness for killing Mustard with a CYA of 50. If you CYA is 100 as you reported below it is simply NOT high enough!

    CL went up to about 5 for 4 hours and back down to zero.
    To be expected if you have algae! You have to raise the FC AND KEEP IT THERE by adding more chlorine several times a day. It gets consumed very quickly killing algae!
    CYA level ~50. Overcast day. Her response was, "I am done guessing. The pool store was right". She is now following their advice.
    I work in a pool store and I do NOT feel they were right if they had you put copper algacide in with a SWG, which they did!
    Current:
    FC:0, TC:0,
    To be expected if you are fighting algae of any kind!
    CYA high at 100,

    How did your CYA go from about 50 ppm (above) to 100 ppm? There seems to be a testing problem here.
    PH way high at 7.8 (liquid test = 7.8, strips hard to read but could be max at 8.2),
    Alk 180
    WAY too high for a SWG!!!! Your pH must be very hard to maintain!
    , TH 100,
    THIS test was done with a strip. It's really not a meaningful test. You want to test Calcium Hardness which can only be done with a drop test. If your pool is plaster or fiberglass this is too low.
    salt at 2800 ppm
    This might be ok on the low side or too low, depends on your brand of SWG.
    StrikeOut algecide (7.41% copper) added.

    Comments? Predictions? Warnings?
    Main warning, with your very high TA and a SWG your pH will be very difficult to maintain and copper and high pH is a recipe for stains in your pool! Too late to do anything about the copper but I would get the TA down so it will be easier to make sure your pH does NOT climb above 7.8

    Thanks in Advance,
    Raymond McGill
    Copper is the ONLY algaecide that actually kills algae BUT (and it's a BIG BUT) it can and will cause stains, particularly if you get a pH spike. Also copper is what causes green hair!

    Pool stores recommend copper because it is as close to a 'magic bullet in a bottle' that we have. This is what most pool owners want. Testing and maintaining FC levels is just "too much work!" You pour it in and the algae dies, no worries until you see the stains and then you go back to the pool store for the stain removers (which don't work very well on copper stains, btw!)
    Mustard requires VERY high FC levels that need to be maintained for a period of time to kill it. If CYA levels are high, as is often the case with SWGs, then the addition of Polyquat 60 can be useful to inhibit the algae growth while you maintain the FC. In extreme cases sodium bromide can be useful IF your SWG can be used with bromine, many cannot!

  13. Back To Top    #13
    ivyleager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    CaryB,

    You're correct. Thanks for catching that.

    You bag a wild turkey in less than 4 hrs, a hockey fan, AND catch the details we miss.
    Your husband is a lucky man!
    And I never let him forget it!
    CaryB
    36 x 18 IG vinyl, 25K, 1 HP pump, sand filter
    1 skimmer, 2 returns, no main drain
    Old school: PoolSolutions test kit

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