50 Year Old Pool Reno

ajw22

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TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
6,671
Northern NJ
Also -- how buggy are all of these systems? Have they all been plug and play without any issues?
Pool automation systems can get glitchy. Best to get equipment and automation from the same company that work together the best. Also install a surge protecter in the main hosue panel and the pool panel. With equipment being outdoors glitches seem to happen around storms.

So ballpark -- if I am going to replace my filter, pump, and pool heater -- what range are we talking? $5K? $10K? More?
Pentair Filter - $600 - $100
Pentair Mastertemp 400 Heater - $2,100
Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump 011018 - $1,000 - $1,300
Pentair IC60 SWG (can be packaged with Intellicenter automation) - $1,200

These are equipment only internet prices. Double the cost if installed by a Pool Company.

I just read that the swimquip filter I took a photo of is an item from a company that was founded in 1952, then sold in the 1970s before being absorbed by Pentair. . . in the 1990s. Might be time for a new filter. . . .
Filters really don't wear out until they begin cracking and leaking. Replacing the filter depends on its condition or if you want a better performing filter or one that is more serviceable.
 

Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
I have a feeling pentair is going to be off the table -- no dealers in our area. I do worry about servicing - its a nightmare where my mother lives.
 

guinness

Well-known member
May 3, 2019
88
California
I have a feeling pentair is going to be off the table -- no dealers in our area. I do worry about servicing - its a nightmare where my mother lives.
You mentioned your landscapers were formerly your pool guys, can they not handle the servicing? It's not like this equipment is highly specialized and parts are freely available.
 

Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
Funny -- that is just what we were saying. I can't imagine the owner turning down any request from mom. I was reading about the warranty? can any professional install -- or to retain warranty does it have to be a pool company that has a specific license for the company (e.g. Hayward, Pentair etc?)
 

guinness

Well-known member
May 3, 2019
88
California
From an earlier post by Jim on the same subject, I think you'll be fine getting the warranty from Pentair.

If you know someone that works for, or owns a business, that has anything to do with pools, or HVAC, or Plumbing, they can be used to get the full warranty. They just need to provide an invoice, on their letterhead, showing they installed it or inspected the installation.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
6,671
Northern NJ
Funny -- that is just what we were saying. I can't imagine the owner turning down any request from mom. I was reading about the warranty? can any professional install -- or to retain warranty does it have to be a pool company that has a specific license for the company (e.g. Hayward, Pentair etc?)


Note: Qualified Installer - Defined as a licensed professional who charges a fee for his services, and possesses a business license, contractor's license and/or resale permit. Common examples of a "qualified installer" include: Swimming Pool, Home Repair or Landscape Professional; Plumber or Electrician; General Contractor; Heating and Air Conditioning Specialist.
 
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Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
hi -- question about draining a saltwater pool? How does this work in practice? In our situation -- there isn't anywhere obvious for the pool to drain. Apparently historically the pool water has been dumped into the lawn?
 

bmoreswim

Mod Squad
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Jul 16, 2012
5,166
Central MD
Saltwater at pool concentrations does not harm lawns. High FC can yellow it, but not at regular FC levels, more like SLAM levels. It’s more about where will the water go. Through landscaping causing erosion, or possibly into a neighbor’s lawn. Otherwise, no issue.
 

Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
Yes -- I'm actually making a spreadsheet. I'll share when I figure out how to really post media -- I'm not sure how to do it separate from theposts themselves.
 

Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
Ok -- You are all actually renovation junkies, not limited to pools. The pool project is an extension of a large relandscaping that resulted from a limb from a ~120 year old maple tree in the front yard inconveniently crashing through the roof of the house during an ice storm. Given the extensive root structure of the tree, we had to gut the front yard to get all of the roots and start over, leaving the other plantings in place. I did this with my father, who then developed a rare pnuemonia the following spring and passed away 10 months after that. This summer we have a few holdover items in the front landscaping that will resolve -- and then next spring/summer -- the pool!

Bizarely, I don't seem to have anything in my phone with the completed front landscaping -- I don't live in the area so I'll grab some in about 6 weeks when I'm there. Last summer we removed an illegal shed and overgrown trees in the back that allows the back to be done -- and we will carry the theme (same pavers/mix and landscaping concepts) into the back, redo the pool, put into place the new decking (2020) and then the following summer(2021) the rest.
 

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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
6,671
Northern NJ
Beautiful stone work in the front.

When you get a chance some pics of the pool area you are discussing with us would help with ideas.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
39,767
Tallahassee, FL
D.D. you have figured us out! We love all things! Pool reno? House by the pool? Dogs by the pool? Goat (yes had a goat build one time)? We love it all!

That word done on your Mom's house is so pretty!!! Well done!

So sorry to hear about your Dad :( That had/has to be rough.
 

Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
Hi --

how about chalking of the pool? While I am waiting for some photos to arrive so I can post -- here is a question. So the current pool, there is air in the pipes so one of the returns isn't working at all, so basically we can't run the pump, the pool was painted (don't ask) and is chalking horribly -- is there any way it can be used this summer? I have little kids -- so its terrifying to get a few people in and suddenly you can't see anything.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
39,767
Tallahassee, FL
Drain and power wash is all I can come up with. Hummmmmm maybe a steel brush to get most of the paint off? It will be a mess but one you may be able to over come with many vacuums. @Pool Clown @ajw22 Lets see if they have any extra ideas. We want the kids to swim SAFELY!
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
6,671
Northern NJ
Hi --

how about chalking of the pool? While I am waiting for some photos to arrive so I can post -- here is a question. So the current pool, there is air in the pipes so one of the returns isn't working at all, so basically we can't run the pump, the pool was painted (don't ask) and is chalking horribly -- is there any way it can be used this summer? I have little kids -- so its terrifying to get a few people in and suddenly you can't see anything.

I am confused. You first ask about chalking of the pool then go on to talk about air int he pipes and can't run the pump. Do you think there is a connection between the two problems?

Air in return pipes should not prevent the pump from running. The water will push the air out unless there are leaks in the pipe.

Is the pump running with this chalking problem? Or are you trying to swim without the pump running?

I am confused and don't understand what the status of the pool and water is when the chalking is occurring.

It is not safe to swim if you cannot see the bottom of the pool.
 

Dutiful Daughter

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2019
39
Oregon
OK -- Without further ado -- appropriate "before" photos.

To recap: This is the pool. It has not been substantially redone since original instal circa 1966. It was painted several years ago and the paint has been chalking up. However, about the time we started to gather some quotes to resurface, we began to have pump problems -- Allen, you have pegged the belief -- we have all copper piping, so the working theory is that somewhere under all the concrete, there is a hole or holes in the pipes. Because the pool is old, no one knows where the pipes were laid -- and at some level, it doesn't matter, the concrete needs to be brought up and a full renovation undertaken. So that is what we are going to do.

The pool was built to be 1/2 under the roof and 1/2 outdoors. So the shallow end runs under the roof to the dog leg (photos). There are 2 returns in the shallow end and the one skimmer sits just at the dog leg on the right. I don't know what the other box is next to the skimmer. The photos with the bare fencing next to the slide used to be trees -- a vastly overgrown magnolia and a friend -- so the've been removed to enable access to the back and that fence will become a living wall. The decking will be from the same paver trimix that we used in the front (photos in a different post).

The landscaping plans (which are being reworked) will expand the deck a bit, and currently suggest a fire pit. we are tossing around the concept of a spa - and based on comments here as well as our local experts, we are going to redraw the backyard plans to put some kind of portable spa that is lower to the ground. I included photos of sliding doors -- the design of the house is such that the kitchen, which is quarry tiled, actually opens onto the pool deck via these large sliding doors, eliminating the need for a second outdoor kitchen. We are discussing where the BBQ should go.

I don't know how to create a link to refer people do -- but these are going to be the working 'before' photos.

Based on some excellent input to date we are going to look into an autofill for the pool (the house water lines are right near it at the back of the house), run conduits before the deck is laid for future uses, we are talking to Pentair to turn our local pool people into a pentair distributor and servicing group for us, and are really thinking about the spa a lot. And will likely become a SWG pool.

New Questions:

Returns and skimmer -- where should the second skimmer go? Allen, I realize now that because 1/2 the pool is under cover, the only wind is going to be coming in from angles off the deep end. And I believe most of the wind heads to where the existing skimmer is at the dog leg. Are skimmers these days larger etc? Ok with our two returns at the shallow end?

Bottom drain? Is there any real difference between our existing circular drain and these channel drains?

Anyone know what that box is?

Can we save the slide or should we get a new one?

Does anyone actually use a fire pit? Special call out to others up north like us who will only use the pool seasonally

Automation -- I'm still confused here. We have a ~40 year old Rayvak Gemini that is natural gas heating the pool -- I was reading a different forum, can I still keep this b/c it works? Ditch it b/c I need a new one for automation? Seems like Rayvak is still the leader here some 50 years later. . . .

Why are people not happy w/ their sand filters? We know how to use ours and the backflush works well -- so I don't see a reason to review this.

Back to the spa -- has anyone done a partially sunk spa? We are trying to future proof this one -- so making an elderly person climb up into a spa doesn't make sense. Most of you separate totally it seems.

Robots -- do the work well on sloped pools? The ads all have the robots climing pretty walls in very clear rectangles -- but our pool is all curves.

PS -- the pool water under that looks good -- other than the fact the paint stirs up the minute its touched making it unswimmable. Sounds like there isn't anything to be done about that this summer.


Thanks as always.
 

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Mika

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2017
51
Stevenson Ranch/CA
Hi all --

I've been lurking on TFP for a bit. I'm a daughter (hence my handle) trying to help my 79 year old mother (who is a recent widow) do a massive in ground pool renovation. My father passed away without having done anything major to the pool for probably the last 15 years. Recently the pump started blowing air -- which apparently means holes in the copper plumbing. . . so basically this is going to be restoration that will include new pipes, pump, etc -- and maybe even adding in a jacuzzi. The pool hasn't been replastered in a long time etc. We are also bringing up the entire deck -- they have to repipe anyway -- so basically everything is up for grabs.

This project is actually a year out -- it wont happen until spring 2020 given the scope -- but I'm looking at bids now to lock it into place and I have a lot of big picture questions. I was hoping maybe some of the experienced forum members could chime in with perspective.

(1) How bad is it to expand an existing pool (remember its 50+ years old) to try an add a hottub/jacuzzi element? We are trying to understand what kind of can of worms (or not) this would add to the project. If that is a bad idea, then is there a way to build a separate in-ground tub near the pool ? Remember we can do anything at this point -- it will be a pool shell surrounded by a vast expanse of mud so we can run piping anywhere.

(2) What is the best approach to resurfacing an old pool? We have a quotation that includes sandblasting -- but I was reading that with old pools, one needs to chip away the plaster -- can someone help me? As I understand it, some of the piping runs under the pool so the bottom will have to be opened anyway to rerun pipes -- so how does sand blasting fit into all of this?

(3) Saltwater generator v. chlorine. My mother isn't getting any younger -- currently she has a pool guy who comes in and charges a fortune to maintain the pool but he does it all -- she doesn't have to do anything with chemicals etc. I'd been reading that these newer saltwater generators are easier -- but other forums suggest you still need to balance the pool. I also don't understand the salt part -- do you actually dump salt into the pool and then the salt cell runs a charge through to convert to chlorine? Can people chime in on the right system for a woman who will be in her 80s? My brother lives in the same town so he is around -- but I'm trying to sort the best system for an aging person -- so thoughts would be welcome.

(4) Skimmers. The pool contractors all agree we need more skimmers. The pool has 1. People are saying that 3 are needed. How do you determine how many skimmers are needed in a pool?

I know this is just a forum -- I won't hold anyone to anything -- I just need to get more educated and this seemed like a good way to start.
I don't have answers to your questions....just wanted to say your mom is blessed to have such a wonderful daughter!
 
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