Calcium hardness

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buckeyechad

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May 6, 2008
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Hello all. This is my first time visiting and did not find anhy postings to answer myh question....so here it is.

New pool last June, Salt water, 18k gallons, light blue plaster, inground with pop up cleaners, tucson arizona. Calcium up around 550 ppm...all other chemicals within suggested limits (excepty chlorine was only .5 for about 1 week due too chlorine generator on fritz, but now working properly and back up to normal limits). did light no drain acid wash 5-6 weeks ago secondary to some staining from a powder ph reducer i used that settled on bottom of pool, but use muriatic acid all but that one time. now calcium hardness is 550. i tested my in home water and it is at 150ppm (have potassium soft water system that is for entire home including outdoor faucets. is there anyway to reduce calcium hardness back to 300ish other than draining halfway and refilling with the 150ppm soft water. if i did the drain and refill it would get me to approximately 350ppm (9k of 550 ppm plus 9k of 150 ppm...would average to 350ppm). thanks for any help.

Chad
 
Hi, Chad,

Welcome to the forum. :lol:

It sounds like you're on the right track. Let me say first of all that a CH of 550 is manageable if you keep careful control of your pH and Alk. That said, 350 is a better level and gives you more leeway if something gets askew.

The problem you will probably have with the water softener is it's capacity. Made to supply household demands, I doubt it can keep up if you try to replace half of your pool at once. You may have to take it in increments which isn't quite as efficient but I think it's the only way you'll keep from overtaxing your softener.

Somewhere out in your area, there is a company that will bring a truck to your place and soften your pool water on the spot. I believe that thread is somewhere on this forum but I did a real rudimentary search and didn't see it. Someone else may remember it and be able to post a link.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as the CSI is balanced, a particular CH number isn't all that critical.

My well water here has a CH of ~400. I tried to fill my pool with soft water to get it's CH down and that really made my softener angry, so Dave is correct there.

My outdoor faucets bypass the softener, so I tried fill up the rest of the way from it last night. When I woke up this morning the pool was a lovely brown color. I guess the well pump must've been sucking up dirt... :hammer:

Lesson learned: I'm trucking in water to fill the pool next year.
 
spoke with pool company

thanks for the advice so far. i talked with my pool builder and a buddy who does pool chemical service, they both said not to worry about it until it hits upwards to 1000ppm. that just sounds like a lot to me and i want to extend the life of all my equipment the best i can. my confusion is due to the recommended being 200-400, but being told that my level of 450 (not 550) is ok. at 450 i am seeing scaling on the tiles and it just looks bad,,,,,not to mention what could possibly be happening to the equipment. should i not worry about 450? would it hurt to drain 2-3k gallons to get levels within range?? is it necessary??? i would just hate to see my money going out the window if i have to replace equipment early when i could have prevented.

on a side note......what is the best product/way to get off my current scaling???

thanks for all the advice.
 
Hey Buckeyechad... what part of Tucson are you in? I'm down in Rancho Sahuarita myself. Muriatic Acid is a common way to remove scaling... dilute some MA in 50-75% water and use a scrub brush dipped in it on the tiles... you'll see the scaling start to foam and it should clean off fairly easily. It worked well for me but I don't love working so directly with the acid especially since when you're brushing it can tend to splatter. At Fry's a couple of weeks ago I found a product called the "Kleanzit calcium remover" that worked really well for me... I put a review of it HERE.
 
Calcium scaling happens when a combination of several different chemical levels push you into scaling. It is possible to have scaling with CH at 200 and no scaling with CH at 1000 depending on your other numbers. The "normal" recommendations are a simplification designed to work for most people with minimal thought. It is possible to deal with high CH levels, you just need to know how to adjust your other numbers to keep things safe. In regions where the fill water has significant amounts of CH and evaporation is fairly rapid there is little choice but to deal with high CH levels.

The calcium saturation index (CSI) can be used to determine if you are at risk for scaling. My Pool Calculator, see the link in my signature, can be used to calculate your CSI. PH is by far the largest factor in the CSI, so it is crucial to keep your PH from getting to high when you have high CH levels. There is no need to keep the CSI at exactly zero. You are fine between -0.5 and +0.5 (or a little further). Often it is good to aim for zero so that you don't need to worry as much about how the various levels change over time. It is perfectly possible to operate without problems at say +0.4 as long as you keep close control over your PH and reasonable control of your other numbers.

Removing scale is difficult. The only reliable way to get it all off is to drain and do a careful manual acid wash. There are milder treatments but they are all less reliable, run some risks of damaging the pool surface or equipment, and can take a great deal of time.
 
i live up in oro valley.

has anyone tried the kleanzit product??? Just wondering if it is more effective than MA reduced to 50-75%. I will probably end up draining about 3k gallons out of the pool and try MA to the tiles to get the scaling off and then see where my CH is after draining and refilling with my 150ppm softened water.

another side note....!!! After i did a light no drain acid wash (i used 4 gallons MA and one quart of The purple Stuff) and brushing for about 24 hours (18k gallons), i then added about 20 pounds of soda ash and ph wasn't up enough...so then added more to get up to good ph level. Now i have slippery spots on my pool bottom....i assume this is from soda ash settling.....most of the spots have gone away but there are still several even after brushing them. If it is the soda ash, will it harm the pool bottom where it has settled....if it is not soda ash what the heck could it be??? Wasnt there before the no drain acid wash so i assume it is the soda ash.

thanks again

Go Bucks
 
Welcome aboard Chad,

If your home water constantly feed your pool with high CH, you should think of long term solution. Is there anyway to install a water tank to collect rain water off the down pipe to feed your pool as primary source. That should reduce your CH over time with rain overflow.

My 2 C.

Vincent
 

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I have an autofill hooked up to the pool before the water softener......pretty smart, huh? I am going to turn it off and start refilling from my outside bib that is softened water...potasssium softened. Not enough rainfall to consistently use mother nature to keep pool full....but a great idea.
 
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