Cannot maintain FC above 0.5

[audioter]

Ok I am pretty frustrated at this point. Any ideas or help would really be appreciated at this time.

I have maintained FC 29 everyday dosing three times a day since I started on Saturday (For CYA of 50 Mustard Algae level is 29 which is what I maintained). I have never let the FC drop below 18 and most times it is 24-29. I have not passed the OCLT yet as every night I loose FC 4-7. This shocking procedure so far has significantly cleaned up the water - it is blue, sparkling and there is no sand like build up each morning (Algae?).

However, the procedure has not solved my white water mold problem.
The white water mold is not dying. Even at FC 29. I can now see it growing the bottom of the deep end of the pool - not just in the filter or plumbing or in the dark. Actually collecting and getting larger. I pulled some up in my skimmer net and it looks healthy and alive.

I have exposed the niches and brushed the pool several times.

Does anybody know what I can do?

One thought is that the pool guys replaced my pump late last season and suggested I should go from a 1.5 HP to 1 HP pump to save money on running costs. They said the 1HP would be sufficient. I am wondering if the water isn't circulating enough could this allow the mold to grow?

Is there any other method/chemical to kill this Dang mold?

Thanks in advance.

 

[linen]

I am inexperienced with the white water mold you have, but I do know that brushing is imperative. I would brush the whole pool at least twice a day. Since it appears to be gaining on you, I would be a little more vigilant at holding the FC level at or slightly above 29 ppm. Hopefully someone with more experience with this mold can chime in.

 

[chem geek]

Check your filter. I suspect it is rather full of mold so clean it. Scoop out as much mold from the pool bottom as you can. Does your pool have a floor drain? When you add more chlorine to shock, pour it through the skimmer so that your filter gets an extra high dose of chlorine, if only briefly. The idea is to physically remove as much as possible. Also, if you haven't gotten behind light niches, you should do so. And don't forget to brush which helps with circulation of the chlorine, especially at the bottom of the pool.

The only chemicals that could help getting rid of white water mold are borates (boric acid) and sodium percarbonate. The borates might be something to consider as a preventative, but doesn't kill all fungus quickly (depends on the species). The sodium percarbonate is incompatible with chlorine since it produces hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate in the water. So that could be looked at as a last resort and you're not nearly far along in this to be at that point.

 

[audioter]

Thanks linen and chem geek.

The pool has two floor drains on North and West side of the deep end. The mold buildup is on the East side of the deep end (side that does not have a drain).
There are five returns and two skimmers.

Scooped up as much mold from pool bottom as I could.
Took apart filter and cleaned. Indeed a fair amount of white mold was in the pleats.
Reassembled everything and poured the dose of bleach into skimmers to get directly to filter. Raised FC to >29 again.
Brushed pool and I will continue to brush pool twice daily.

Turns out I don't have light niches - they are simply covers for what looks like fiber cables. So when I tried to remove them the pool started draining through them. I obviously stopped and put them back. I have got into them well and brushed them thoroughly. I am confident they are clean.

Questions
1. The filter always has some white mold when I open it. Is there a chemical treatment you would recommend to sterilize the filter outside the system? I am happy to soak the filter in a chemical overnight to try and sterilize it?
2. How often would you recommend I take apart and clean the filter? Or is there a better way to keep it under control?
3. How do I start added Borates to my pool and at what concentration? I guess it couldn't hurt to try and get all kinds of killing agents in there that will work against this white mold.
4. I take it you all think the 1HP pump should be sufficient and it is not pump circulation that is the problem? So I shouldn't replace the pump?

I am going to destroy this mold even if it takes a nuke.

 

[linen]

1. The filter always has some white mold when I open it. Is there a chemical treatment you would recommend to sterilize the filter outside the system? I am happy to soak the filter in a chemical overnight to try and sterilize it?

Not sure on this one. Have you looked at this post?: http://www.troublefreepool.com/how-to-clean-a-cartridge-filter-t4465.html

2. How often would you recommend I take apart and clean the filter? Or is there a better way to keep it under control?

We normally recommend when the filter psi goes up 25% from clean filter pressure...however, if that is not happening very often for you, with your issue I would not go too long between cleanings to get the captured mold out.

3. How do I start added Borates to my pool and at what concentration? I guess it couldn't hurt to try and get all kinds of killing agents in there that will work against this white mold.

For borates see: http://www.troublefreepool.com/so-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-why-and-how-t4921.html

Boric acid is the easiest way to add them and can be pretty cost comparative (I got mine at dudadeisel.com) to doing the Borax/Muriatic Acid approach.

4. I take it you all think the 1HP pump should be sufficient and it is not pump circulation that is the problem? So I shouldn't replace the pump?

It should be enough for that pool....what pump is it?

I would work on getting as much flow heading towards (and away again) from the deep end where the mold is hanging out...if you have already done that, then my next thought is to get a circular flow motion around your pool if that is possible. For both of these approaches, you may have to throttle back/turn off some of your returns to get the flow rate needed to accomplish the water movement.

 

[audioter]

Again, thanks linen.

The pump is a Century Centurion 1HP Model CX pump (RPM 3450).

I will consider adding Borates and just ordered the Borate testing strips.

I have a question about the Boric acid method. With the Borax/Muriatic you add both base (Borax) and acid (Muriatic) to keep the pH constant. I would guess that Boric Acid alone would drop the pH - what do you do to balance with Boric Acid? Soda Ash? or something else?
I'm trying to figure the most cost effective way to do this.

Speaking of which, since the chlorine isn't killing the mold how long do you think I should I continue FC 29 shocking?

I have been reading more about filters. The bands on my filters are long gone - perhaps it is time I replaced the filters? Would this help with the mold buildup? Somehow I doubt it but just wanted to check.

 

[linen]

I would guess that Boric Acid alone would drop the pH - what do you do to balance with Boric Acid?

For most people the addition of Boric Acid does not change the ph significantly. If ph changes at all, it should go down, but just slightly in the buffered pool water. If after adding it ph needs to be raised, use borax...it won't take much. When I did mine, their was such a small change I ignored it.

Speaking of which, since the chlorine isn't killing the mold how long do you think I should I continue FC 29 shocking?

I might try to keep it up near 29 for now, at least until you pass the OCLT.

I have been reading more about filters. The bands on my filters are long gone - perhaps it is time I replaced the filters? Would this help with the mold buildup? Somehow I doubt it but just wanted to check.

Although is sounds like you need a new filter cartridge, that is not going to fix you white water mold problem (unless it was only in the filter which it isn't).

The pump is a Century Centurion 1HP Model CX pump (RPM 3450).

Is there something else on it that tells us who the pump manufacturer is...I think century only manufactures the motor.

 

[audioter]

Thanks linen - the pump is a sta-rite pump with the century motor. I will wait to replace the filter once I have figured out the mold. I also adjusted my returns to try and create a circular flow - it seems to help.

Good news and bad news.

Good news: I passed OCLT two nights in a row at FC 29 then FC 24 the next night (loss in between was because of sun and people using the pool). I think I am done shocking.

Bad news: The mold is still there and happily growing. Everything else is dead and the water is sparkling. Just slow buildup of mold on the floor where the circulation is poor.

I am considering Borates, but wanted to check to see if I should try reducing phosphates first?

Questions:
1. Would reducing phosphate help with mold? I read about it helping with algae but not sure if it will help with mold (fungus)?
2. What is the best kit to measure phosphates?
3. What is the best suggested way to lower phosphates?

Thanks in advance.

 

[chem geek]

All living things require phosphates. I just don't know if lowering the phosphate level to the 125 ppb or so level that phosphate removers can obtain is enough. I'm sure it will slow down the growth, but not sure if it would stop it completely. Taylor makes a phosphate test K-1106. There are a bunch of different removal products. Natural Chemistry® PHOSfree has a built in clarifier so won't cloud the water as much as some other products. If your phosphate levels are high, this can get pretty expensive, especially if your fill water has phosphates which it may since some water districts add it for corrosion control.

Of course, with whatever you add, you'll want to make sure you mix it in with the pool water on the bottom; otherwise you won't create whatever effect you need. At least with phosphate removal and with borates those items don't get consumed so bad circulation shouldn't matter once you've mixed these down to the bottom. With chlorine, it can get used up and then requires circulation to get replenished.

[EDIT] Actually, with a phosphate remover, circulation may still be needed because most of what happens is the formation of lanthanum carbonate in the filter so later phosphates that may be introduced need to get into the filter (where carbonate is released and phosphate binds to the lanthanum). It's only if there is leftover lanthanum in the water that it might precipitate phosphate that reaches the bottom of the pool. [END-EDIT]