do all couples fight about pool maintenance?
- Thread starter overit
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No need to reply to "What is Shock Level" having read and re-read some stickes, post, the caculator and things at the bottom of the "Caculator" I'm am thinking Shock Level means the level of FC in ratio to my CYA that will kill my alage and that this number is high and always changing. How long does a person need to keep it at this level (a day, a week, a month?) and if I slip up and it drops below this level for a few hours do you have to start all over again? Sorry I'm so slow, I feel like such a dumb dumb.
Will try to switch more water but was just wondering if I was thinking right.
Will try to switch more water but was just wondering if I was thinking right.
frustratedpoolmom said:My advice, having been there done that with a skeptical hubby, is have him come on here and read the advice. He will convert. The experts here have a way with people
I live in an area where water is very expensive. I hesitated draining, my CYA was 120+. But honestly you are fighting a losing battle if you don't get your CYA down, and a partial drain is the only way to do it.
I did 2 partial drains last May, got my CYA down to 60+ and my pool has been fine since. Once I got that under control I probably spent less than $35 the remainder of the season.
That is your best place to start and my only advice. Lower your CYA.
Hubby and I do not fight about the pool, once I took over and found TFP and converted BBB, he trusts me to handle it. Only time he gets involved is heavy equipment issues or putting on the winter cover.
Good luck, its a beautiful pool and once you get the algea under control you'll be a happy camper.
EXCELLENT post, UN-frustratedpoolmom! :lol:
overit said:
You need to maintain the shock level 24/7 as best you can; however, your CYA issue is really hurting you.
The amount of chlorine you will need is HUGE w/your CYA level.
Others will chime in, but IMHO, unless you do the drain and refill dance to lower the CYA, you will likely not overcome your pool issues.
We don't fight about pool maintenance, mostly because we each have our own responsibilities.
I do the maintenance: testing, adjusting chemistries, cleaning. He does the mechanical and electrical maintenance, winterizes and opens the equipment. He also does the construction when I've had a bright idea.
Works for us.
AnnaK
I do the maintenance: testing, adjusting chemistries, cleaning. He does the mechanical and electrical maintenance, winterizes and opens the equipment. He also does the construction when I've had a bright idea.
Works for us.
AnnaK
For the heck of it I did the CYA test with my tap water. Zero. Did it with pool water got 100+ again. Did it with half pool and half tap water. Got a reading of 50!
Getting him to sit and read this stuff at this time of year is also zero though. He is baling hay, so working day and night. Every time he sits down, he falls asleep. I going to the water company, slap some cash down (I work also so have my own cash) and ask him about another half drain. Might work.
Getting him to sit and read this stuff at this time of year is also zero though. He is baling hay, so working day and night. Every time he sits down, he falls asleep. I going to the water company, slap some cash down (I work also so have my own cash) and ask him about another half drain. Might work.
Based on the dilution test you did, your CYA level is not too much above 100, probably not 150. Getting it below 100 is important, getting it all the way down to 50 may or may not be worth it. It might be more practical to aim for between 70 and 80 than to aim for 50.
overit said:
You're close - your required FC level is determined by your CYA level; the higher your CYA, the higher your FC level needs to be to sanitize your pool and kill off the nasties. Shock level is based on your FC (so it's also determined by your CYA level, in a sense), and is just a very high FC level needed to kill off nasties like algae. For example, from Jason's calculator, if you have CYA = 60, then your target FC range is 5 - 8, and your shock FC level should be 18; if you have CYA = 100, then your FC range is 8 - 13, and your shock FC level is 25.
How do you know if your pool needs to be shocked? Well, the obvious would be if you have a visible algae bloom. The not- so-obvious is when your water is clear, but your Combined Chlorine level starts climbing. If you have a FAS-DPD chlorine test kit, you can measure your FC and CC levels. I always check for CC when I check my FC. If your CC starts going up, then it's also time to shock your pool
When you need to shock your pool, you need to bring the FC level up to shock level and hold it there until you can maintain that shock level at least overnight. Why overnight? Because at night, any FC that's lost is lost strictly to killing off the nasties in the pool - none is lost to sunlight. So, if you can maintain shock level overnight, chances are good that you've killed off all of the algae and other organics in the pool. Some folks try to go two nights without any loss just to make sure. Shocking does require some diligence, as you'll need to test your FC several times and add bleach as necessary to maintain the shock level for the required time period.
As you can see, with your CYA level at or over 100, you need much higher FC levels for sanitation and for shocking, which in turn means lots and lots of bleach, especially if you have a large pool. That's why Jason and the rest keep suggesting to dump some of your water and refill to lower your CYA level. You can reach and maintain lower levels of FC with much less bleach than trying to reach a shock level of 25.
Hope this helps.
Well, we dumped and replaced over half the water (again), put in 14 gallons of bleach, ran the pump for 8 hours and the numbers are as follows:
FC 22.5
CC .5
PH 7.5
CYA 70
TA 140
CH 540
The CYA did not go down as low as I thought it might.
If I understand what I am reading in all your information, I need to get my FC to about 25, hold it there over night for 2 nights and that might kill off the black algae every where it is hiding. We are brushing and brushing and the algae is slowing fading but the stuff is hiding under our rock waterfall and in the cracks, places that I really can't get to to brush. Thinking maybe we should keep it at 25 for longer???
I am worried about the CYA creeping back up. I take it CYA is cyanuric acid. How does it get into the pool? if you never add cyanuric acid. Your stickies say stabilizer. My husband said he has never put any stabilizer in. I am so hoping this algae does not come back for a few years at least. I do want to leave the pool maintenace to the husband but am so tired of being sent to the pool supply store for more algaecide, shock and chlorine. The $$$$$$$ spent every other weekend was killing me. What to do next?
FC 22.5
CC .5
PH 7.5
CYA 70
TA 140
CH 540
The CYA did not go down as low as I thought it might.
If I understand what I am reading in all your information, I need to get my FC to about 25, hold it there over night for 2 nights and that might kill off the black algae every where it is hiding. We are brushing and brushing and the algae is slowing fading but the stuff is hiding under our rock waterfall and in the cracks, places that I really can't get to to brush. Thinking maybe we should keep it at 25 for longer???
I am worried about the CYA creeping back up. I take it CYA is cyanuric acid. How does it get into the pool? if you never add cyanuric acid. Your stickies say stabilizer. My husband said he has never put any stabilizer in. I am so hoping this algae does not come back for a few years at least. I do want to leave the pool maintenace to the husband but am so tired of being sent to the pool supply store for more algaecide, shock and chlorine. The $$$$$$$ spent every other weekend was killing me. What to do next?
overit said:
According to the Pool Calculator, for CYA = 70, your shock value would be 20, so really no need to take it up to 25 just right yet. The algae will die, just brush the best that you can, and keep running the filter. as the algae dies and gets brushed off the surfaces, it'll cloud the water a bit, so keep filtering to get it out. It can take a day or three to get it all filtered out. Make sure to clean your filter as needed. The CC = .5 tells you that there's still some chlorine being used by something (probably algae). Once you can hold the FC at the same value at least overnight, you can let the FC start falling back to normal level. Evidently your CYA was higher than 100 if you dumped half of the water, and it dropped to 70. That's still high, but workable.
You right, CYA is cyanuric acid. The primary way it gets into your pool if you don't actually add stablizer is through "stabilized chlorine" pucks, which is more then likely dichlor pucks. These pucks have chlorine and CYA in them, so if you're using them as your chlorine source, you're adding CYA with each puck that dissolves.
Once you get the algae killed off and cleaned out, you shouldn't have any major problems with it again as long as you keep your FC where it needs to be for your given level of CYA. You might have a spot or two come up say around your rock waterfall, but you should be able to handle that rather quickly with a brush.
BTW, IMHO stands for "In My Honest Opinion"
You are making great progress! You should have everything cleaned up in a couple of days.
MikeInTN has it right. When fighting stubborn algae you want to maintain shock levels of chlorine, FC of 20 in this case, by testing and adding more chlorine as needed at frequent intervals, until you don't lose any FC overnight. While that is happening you should brush everywhere you can get to at at least once a day. If there are places you can't brush, stay at shock level for 24 hours after the FC level remains the same overnight. While that is happening, keep an eye on the filter and clean/backwash the filter as needed.
CYA is in both dichlor and trichlor. That means it is in the standard tablets/pucks (trichlor) and in many of the granulated "shock" products (dichlor).
Your CH level is fairly high, so it would be a good idea to lower your TA to avoid any risk of calcium scaling. There is a through write up on how to lower TA here and we can walk you through it if you need help. There isn't any rush on this. Go ahead and deal with the algae first.
MikeInTN has it right. When fighting stubborn algae you want to maintain shock levels of chlorine, FC of 20 in this case, by testing and adding more chlorine as needed at frequent intervals, until you don't lose any FC overnight. While that is happening you should brush everywhere you can get to at at least once a day. If there are places you can't brush, stay at shock level for 24 hours after the FC level remains the same overnight. While that is happening, keep an eye on the filter and clean/backwash the filter as needed.
CYA is in both dichlor and trichlor. That means it is in the standard tablets/pucks (trichlor) and in many of the granulated "shock" products (dichlor).
Your CH level is fairly high, so it would be a good idea to lower your TA to avoid any risk of calcium scaling. There is a through write up on how to lower TA here and we can walk you through it if you need help. There isn't any rush on this. Go ahead and deal with the algae first.
Thanks for the clarification on the dichlor/trichlor and it's forms, Jason. I couldn't remember if it was dichlor or trichlor in the pucks (or both), and at 1:42am, I was kinda sleepy and didn't take the time to go do a search and find out.
You da man, as always!
You da man, as always!
Congrats Overit, you are headed on the road to recovery.....believe me, having been there-done that- you are in the home stretch. Keep the BBB faith, LOL! (laughing out loud)
I am losing hope!
Have been brushing, testing, and adding bleach but still see some black spots.
The ones that don't want to leave are on the side of the deep end seat and under the water fall feature but also have two areas right smack in the middle of the pool. Knew I was running low, but I ran out of 0871 this morning so could not test. Just added three bottles of bleach. I know you said to keep it at FC at 20 but have been trying to hold it between 21 and 22 just to give me some slip up room. (one night I had it at 25 and it dropped to 21 over night) The pool looks just beautiful (if you don't look to close). We have backwashed filter twice this week. I just have this bad feeling that I'm not going to kill it all and it's just going to come back.
When I deal with the high TA I also have some other issues that I hope you can help with later, like the plaster falling off in spots, will try to send pictures later today. Three loose plaster spots on steps and one in shallow end. The Farmer thinks it might be from where the tablet dispenser was stuck on the steps.
Could I have some other kind of hard to kill enemy?
Also, want to order a new salt water thing so when I get things under control, I can put it in, any suggestions? the one we have is a ClorMatic II. Was told by our pool builder when we first put it in that is might not be big enough to do the job, but it worked great for the first 10 year or so. We have cleaned it but it looks like the control box has lost it, we get no signal.
Will try to hang in, but feel like I'm a sinking ship. I'm bailing water as fast as I can but my ship going down anyway.
Have been brushing, testing, and adding bleach but still see some black spots.
The ones that don't want to leave are on the side of the deep end seat and under the water fall feature but also have two areas right smack in the middle of the pool. Knew I was running low, but I ran out of 0871 this morning so could not test. Just added three bottles of bleach. I know you said to keep it at FC at 20 but have been trying to hold it between 21 and 22 just to give me some slip up room. (one night I had it at 25 and it dropped to 21 over night) The pool looks just beautiful (if you don't look to close). We have backwashed filter twice this week. I just have this bad feeling that I'm not going to kill it all and it's just going to come back.
When I deal with the high TA I also have some other issues that I hope you can help with later, like the plaster falling off in spots, will try to send pictures later today. Three loose plaster spots on steps and one in shallow end. The Farmer thinks it might be from where the tablet dispenser was stuck on the steps.
Could I have some other kind of hard to kill enemy?
Also, want to order a new salt water thing so when I get things under control, I can put it in, any suggestions? the one we have is a ClorMatic II. Was told by our pool builder when we first put it in that is might not be big enough to do the job, but it worked great for the first 10 year or so. We have cleaned it but it looks like the control box has lost it, we get no signal.
Will try to hang in, but feel like I'm a sinking ship. I'm bailing water as fast as I can but my ship going down anyway.
Take a couple of deep breaths and try to relax. The whole process does take a little while. It sounds like you are making excellent progress.
Are these black spots at all soft and slimy and respond to brushing or are they hard and brushing has no effect at all? It is possible that you have some metal stains, unrelated to the algae. Live algae would be slimy. Algae can leave some fairly faded looking stains that go away after a few weeks, but that kind of stain is almost never described as black. Dark black stains that are not at all slimy and don't respond to chlorine are usually metal stains.
If you kill all the algae and maintain proper FC levels the algae will not come back. They key is maintaining proper FC levels.
Lose plaster is not good, but it isn't a disaster either. Depending on how bad it is you may or may not need to do anything about it any time soon. Having a floater sitting right against the plaster can cause problems, but won't usually cause the plaster to fail.
A SWG can be a huge help, even if it is undersized. Chlorine demand is highest when the water temperature is high and you have lots of people swimming. The rest of the time it might well be able to keep up even if it is significantly smaller than the recommended size. SWGs do break sometimes. With all the other things going on you might want to wait till later to think about dealing with it.
Are these black spots at all soft and slimy and respond to brushing or are they hard and brushing has no effect at all? It is possible that you have some metal stains, unrelated to the algae. Live algae would be slimy. Algae can leave some fairly faded looking stains that go away after a few weeks, but that kind of stain is almost never described as black. Dark black stains that are not at all slimy and don't respond to chlorine are usually metal stains.
If you kill all the algae and maintain proper FC levels the algae will not come back. They key is maintaining proper FC levels.
Lose plaster is not good, but it isn't a disaster either. Depending on how bad it is you may or may not need to do anything about it any time soon. Having a floater sitting right against the plaster can cause problems, but won't usually cause the plaster to fail.
A SWG can be a huge help, even if it is undersized. Chlorine demand is highest when the water temperature is high and you have lots of people swimming. The rest of the time it might well be able to keep up even if it is significantly smaller than the recommended size. SWGs do break sometimes. With all the other things going on you might want to wait till later to think about dealing with it.
The spots do respond to brushing and I guess they may not be black, but since they are in the deep end and I am looking threw 4 to 9 feet of water, they just seem like black spots to me. They are getting lighter each day, I guess I was just expecting them to go away faster. Have not received my chem order yet so can not test FC levels. Have just been putting in one gallon bleach, every 8 hours. Hopefully the stuff will get here Thursday and my FC level has not fallen too low. I have been looking but have not seen a sticky or thread on how and where to take water samples and how and where to put in chemicals. I did try to read the one about acid and the test with the dye, but it was pretty deep and I don't know that their was an answer in it. Can you point me towards that info?
How and where to take water samples:
I take my water sample from in front of a skimmer, 12 - 18 inches deep. Fill bottle and rinse. Then refill bottle and start testing. You will also rinse all test bottles/tubes with this pool water before testing.
Adding chemicals to your pool:
Muriatic acid is never added thru the skimmer, but is poured s l o w l y in front of a return. Brushing after adding the acid will reduce the possibility of any puddling.
Most other chems are added thru the skimmer and have instructions on the bottles.
Those of us that manually dose with liquid chlorine (bleach) do it different ways. Some pour it in the skimmer, some walk around the pool and pour it in, and some pour it slowly in front of a return.
You will soon have your beautiful pool back and your water under YOUR control! You are doing a great job. :lol:
Please keep us posted with your progress.
I take my water sample from in front of a skimmer, 12 - 18 inches deep. Fill bottle and rinse. Then refill bottle and start testing. You will also rinse all test bottles/tubes with this pool water before testing.
Adding chemicals to your pool:
Muriatic acid is never added thru the skimmer, but is poured s l o w l y in front of a return. Brushing after adding the acid will reduce the possibility of any puddling.
Most other chems are added thru the skimmer and have instructions on the bottles.
Those of us that manually dose with liquid chlorine (bleach) do it different ways. Some pour it in the skimmer, some walk around the pool and pour it in, and some pour it slowly in front of a return.
You will soon have your beautiful pool back and your water under YOUR control! You are doing a great job. :lol:
Please keep us posted with your progress.
No more fighting about it!
The "Farmer" said, he had never seen the pool look better. It really does look great now. Thanks so much. But how do I hold it? We washed out the filter this past weekend, keep the FC at 21 and it held for two nights, on the third night the kids went in after dark and it had dropped to 20 the next morning. I think that still might be ok. I am letting the FC drop slowly. To what level? I guess 10 or so? Here are my readings tonight. We have stopped running the filter 24/7. Should I let the FC drop more before I start the acid and air treatment to get the TA down more?
FC 13.5
CC 0
ph 7.5
T/A 130
CH 470
CYA 60
Salt 1930
Was reading the CYA articles and one of them said high CYA has been linked to loose plaster. Will try to get those pictures of loose plaster to you soon. Have seen plaster patch at the pool store.
Anyway, we are working on getting a new ClorMatic (boy those things are big $$$) Don't know it this one is worth calling a repairman out for (if you could even find one). Do my numbers look ok now?
The "Farmer" said, he had never seen the pool look better. It really does look great now. Thanks so much. But how do I hold it? We washed out the filter this past weekend, keep the FC at 21 and it held for two nights, on the third night the kids went in after dark and it had dropped to 20 the next morning. I think that still might be ok. I am letting the FC drop slowly. To what level? I guess 10 or so? Here are my readings tonight. We have stopped running the filter 24/7. Should I let the FC drop more before I start the acid and air treatment to get the TA down more?
FC 13.5
CC 0
ph 7.5
T/A 130
CH 470
CYA 60
Salt 1930
Was reading the CYA articles and one of them said high CYA has been linked to loose plaster. Will try to get those pictures of loose plaster to you soon. Have seen plaster patch at the pool store.
Anyway, we are working on getting a new ClorMatic (boy those things are big $$$) Don't know it this one is worth calling a repairman out for (if you could even find one). Do my numbers look ok now?