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Thread: Did I troubleshoot this cloudy water correctly ?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Did I troubleshoot this cloudy water correctly ?

    Hello All,


    First I would like to thank TFP, I just realized that my chlorine test kit which is by Pentair ( 5 way test ) mentioned residual chlorine and I have always assumed it is free cholrine...my my, how dumb I was. Finally look closer at the TF-100 test kit and it has CYA and all the important FC CC TC......yipeee !!!!!

    I been hunting down CYA test kit and the Indonesian dealer of La Motte wanted me to special order, they don't stock. I will also be charged a one time special chemical handling fee by air freight( I forgot how much but it was nasty like US$45 or something ) and i need to wait for 3 months. Anyway, I have ordered 2 test kit, one for me and one for a dear friend. I hope to get it within 45 days. I send it out to a USA address, and it will join my other shipment soon into Indonesia. Thank you Dave/Duraleigh.

    So this is the story.
    When I woke up at 7 am on 8th April, I was in for a shock. My pool was cloudy.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    I check with the people at home and it was raining the day before. A short burst of heavy rain at night. The water after the rain was normal, it was clear.

    I look at my log book, 7th April it had 0.5PPM. So now I know it was TC of 0.5, the free one I don't know.
    I have always keep the CL low at 1.0 to 0.5 and hardly exceed 1.5.
    My pool is next to a building and such sudden rain after quite a few days of hot sun, I am getting rain water that passed along building walls. The sunshade of the pool also will collect dust and pollen for sure. Anyway, I never had rain doing this kind of damage.

    So I was in a for a shock.
    This is how the pool surrounding area is and typical clear water it has.

    PH is never an issue ( assuming my test kit is accurate ) wth my pool. So I suspect that the rain water took massive algae babies from my building roof and so on and what I see as cloudy is what people say an algae green bloom coming soon after this. I checked my CL, and it was ZERO !!!!...on the 8th April 7am.

    OK, I thought this must be baby algae on the way to adult hood...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
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    I was preparing to go on a far away diving trip and I was restless looking at my pool.
    I got my pool guy to bomb 200 gram of granular chlorine. I called the seller and I said I want the spec of the chlorine fast !!!.
    The brand was Hi-Chlor, It was Tri-Chlor isocynuric acid type, 90%. Made in France.

    I knew about CYA if too high may ruin my chlorine performance but I never can test it. I do not have the kit.
    This is a 135,000 liter pool and I am adding water at 400 liters per day. The water is new as of March 2007. Supposedly mountain water and I paid dearly for it. My chorine consumption is never more than 4kg a month and with 400 liter dilution a day ( some part of the pool was not waterproof right.... ), so CYA should not be a problem, at least not for now.

    This is the second time it went cloudy on me. The first time was when 6 scuba divers were using the pool for training and I had I think CL of 1.5 ( TC ) when they started and like 1.0 after they are done. I thought some of the 6 divers must be made of calcium... ha ha ha. :P . This first time cloudy was why I bought that Pentair 1.5HP pump and cartridge filter on the trolley, to help my fixed mounted 2 HP Hayward pump. Havinga pool which is odd shape with 4 meters deep approx 55% of it from a 1.2 meter shallow part, my water circulation was never good.

    I am using a silver+copper ionizer, sand filter with Zelbrite media and another Hayward cartidge filter downstream the sand.

    This is how my fix mounted set up is.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
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    Indonesia
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    Hello Jason,

    Sorry my test kit were so simple, this were the numbers at 7AM on 8th April 2008.

    CL : ZERO !!!!
    PH 7.4
    TA : 60 Its so hard to raise my TA

    That's all I can test for.
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
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    In my balancing tank, I had a full size 250 gram tablet of the Tri-Chlor and it suprised me I got ZERO CL.

    So, after my pool boy bombed 200 gram granular Tri-Chlor chlorine at 7:30AM, I bomb again with powder chlorine at 8:50AM.

    Honestly I don't know what type of Chlorine the powder one is. When we buy, we call it powder chlorine and it is cheap. I know its dumb but the powder one got the CL reading up fast but does not last long since it dissolved so quickly.

    I run that back up pump on trolley together with the main pump.

    By 10 AM 8th April, I am getting CL of 3 PPM or more. Sorry, my test kit is only up to 3ppm.

    So I want to shock it good and I use another 600 gram of the powder chlorine at 1:00 in the afternoon. This amount of powder chlorine made my pool even more cloudy.

    I ran both pump non stop till the next day.
    By next day, at 10AM on 9th April, I am still reading CL of 3ppm or more, sorry test kit topped at 3ppm only.

    What made me confused was, if this was algae, and I am killing them, how come I am not getting any increase in my filter pressure at all ? I did not get the green bloom too.

    This is the photo of the water sligthly better at 10AM 9th April
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    I told my pool boy not to switch off the pump untill water gets normal clearity. Run both pumps again 9th april for till next day 10th April.

    By 7PM 9th April I was already away, so I do not have any photo update.
    In the afternoon of 9th April, I told my pol boy to but 12% bleach...thanks BBB info !!!!

    At 5PM 9th April, I told him to dump 2 liters into the pool, regardless the CL reading is 3ppm+.

    However, by the 10th April at night, I call my pool boy and water was back to normal clearity.

    Still, none of the filters 2 of cartridge ( one on trolley ) and one fix mounted and the sand filter, register any pressure increase. Also no green bloom from cloudy to clear water.

    The first cloudy case I had, it took me a week to get the water clear again and I have not got that back up trolley pump yet.
    So, I knew I had circulation problem when bather load or contamination load is high.

    What I can't figure out is, if the cloudiness was caused by algae, where are the dead algae ? Why I am not getting dead algae stuck on my filters and increase pressure ?

    It was not PH fo sure. The test for PH was good and my pool is quite stable since March 2007. The PH usually increase, never decrease and in a year, I have not finished my 25 liters supply of 30% sulphuric acid.

    What actually happen here guys ?

    Many thanks in advance.
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  7. Back To Top    #7
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    I think it was algae and you have now killed it. Having chlorine at zero is very suggestive of algae. If it was algae, it was just getting started and probably wouldn't cause too much filter pressure increase and wouldn't be visibly green yet.

    Since you are using trichlor you must have a noticeable CYA level, which means you probably aren't using enough chlorine. The silver/copper system will reduce the amount of chlorine you need, as will the limited sunlight, but even so FC of 1.5 sounds really low. However, there is no way of being sure without knowing the CYA level.

    Still, if it was algae adding chlorine wouldn't make the cloudiness worse.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    When I came back home on the 14th, first thing I did was take photo of the pool at night.

    14th April, 9PM. No flash. Tripod assisted.


    Hi Jason,

    That cheapo powder chlorine makes my water cloudy if I use more than 400grams at one go. I think its calcium based yes ?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887
    If the powdered chlorine is cal-hypo, which has calcium in it, it can cause calcium clouding when added when the CSI is above zero. In fact the entire incident could be calcium clouding, which might have cleared up from the acid in the trichlor. Calcium can be so fine that it goes right through the filter and it often won't go away till you get the CSI below zero. But without a CH number it is impossible to tell.

    The pictures do look like calcium clouding, but I have seen algae that also looks like that and having FC of zero is very very suggestive of algae.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Hi Jason,

    I can't wait to play with the TF 100 test kit when it arrive in approx 45 days.
    Its ironic that I live in the capital city and yet no one stock CYA test kit. No pool supply has test kit for Free Chlorine, the Lamotte dealer wants me to special order that too.

    All I can get is the OTO type.

    This is the water as of 15th April 2008, 9AM.
    I dove it and it was sparkling clear already. I dove it again tonight and it was even better.
    I think the 12% bleach help for fast kill yes.
    I am reading TFP on daily basis and my head is about to explode.

    Thanks to all of you for a great educational site and this site indeed must be supported. YES !!!!!!!!

    I have an ozone unit on order from Prozone. I hope in a months or so it will be installed. If I can be more knowlegable and contribute some test info on my pool system for others to share. Its a payback I must do.

    I intend to do bacterial test/count ( what do they call it ?? ) before and after the ozone in operation. I am curious to know.
    This unit injects ozone air bubbles instead of water pasing thru the UV lamp and supposedly do not kill chlorine...I hope so.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Regards,
    SPP
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
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    Location
    Indonesia
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    Hi Jason,

    It can't be calcium clouding I think. When it first started to become cloudy after that rain, I did not yet add anything.
    The drill is I dump Tri-Clor tablet in the balancing tank and it will dissolve so slowy in like 3-4 days. I adjust its rate of dissolve by making it closer or further from the suction pipe. So far so good.

    When I use 600 grams of that powder chlorine ( cal-hypo ?? ), then it starts to become more cloudy..as usual. I dump powder chlorine into the pool, not the balancing tank. Bit by bit diluted with water, usually 50 gram diluted with 10 liters of water.

    Thanks again.
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

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