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Thread: Water loss...how much is normal?????

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    Water loss...how much is normal?????

    We have had our new pool open for a couple of weeks now and it seem like I have to add water to the pool on a daily basis. We have a 16x43x24 Grecian L with about 800 SF of surface area. The pool gets full sun all day and it has been very windy so far this season. I understand there is evaporation and the pool has a good bit of surface area but my bigger concern is a leak somewhere that hasn't been detected yet. We have easily been losing an inch or two each day (around 500 gallons per inch) and the temp around here hasn't been nearly as high as what they will be all summer. PB says this is normal BUT....I thought I would bounce it off of this forum as a sanity check. Will I have to put a hose in the pool and leave it on all summer? I really didn't consider the cost of water except for the initial fill. Should I be concerned????
    inground liner Grecian "L"
    34000 gallons
    1 HP whisperflo, TA100 sand filter
    Autopilot digital SWG, SC-60 cell
    Hayward Colorlogic LED lights

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Evaporation can be substantial in some areas and at some times of year. I am losing about 1" a week here in Maryland right now, but we have had rain and I am not correcting for that.

    The best way to distinguish between a leak and evaporation is to do a bucket test. Get a bucket and place it in the pool so that the rim of the bucket is above the water line, perhaps on a step, and fill it with water to the same level as the pool. Then watch to see if water goes down in the bucket at the same rate as in the pool or more slowly. If the pool loses more water than the bucket you have a leak.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Excellent suggestion....I will give it a try. I have already had a leak repaired but it bubbled up in the yard and was pretty obvious. It was return line to the steps and curiously, one still spits out air bubbles from time to time. Makes me wonder where that air is coming from. Anyway, the lines that were buried around the pool walls and are now covered with our concrete deck are the ones that scare me to death. They are so deep, I am not sure how we would ever know. If the bucket test points to a leak, is a pressure test the next step?
    inground liner Grecian "L"
    34000 gallons
    1 HP whisperflo, TA100 sand filter
    Autopilot digital SWG, SC-60 cell
    Hayward Colorlogic LED lights

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    I have a 20 x 40 pool, so about the same surface area and have never lost an inch a day except when I had a leak in an underground line that fed my old polaris. Besides the bucket test you might want to measure the loss both with and without the pump running for a 24 hour period. If you only loose when the pump is running that would indicate a piping problem as opposed to a liner / wall issue.
    20x40 IG vinyl, heatpump and solar and 3 siberian huskies, 10kw PV solar electric system. Nikon Photographer D800e dSLR.

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    donaldm823's Avatar
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    Water Loss Rate

    My PB tried to convince me that a 1/2in per day was normal (700ft2 pool) for my new inground pool still under warranty. So I measured level each day and found the rate decrease was constant regardless of the type day or water temp. That seemed odd since normal level drop is due to evaporation. I also I measured it with the solar cover installed (which prevents water evaporation at night), and again the rate stayed the same, Rate was independent of pump on/off.

    With all of the spreadsheet numbers-the PB ordered in a diver. The diver found that the pool plaster people had used the wrong size screws when installing the main drain covers. As a result, they had cracked the main drain base which resulted in a crack that leaked into the ground under the pool. The diver also found small unbonded spaces between the skimmer opening base and the pool sides. Once fixed with pool epoxy, my rate decreased drastically. I now get less than 1/2in per day in middle summer sunny days without a solar cover at night. If I install the solar cover, rate loss goes to zero.

    Lesson, is to document the rate over several weeks so the PB will stop making excuses.
    Don SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter, Pentair SWG, Pentair Intelliflow VS pump (11018)
    FAFCO solar panels w/Pentair SolarTouch controller
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

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    Good ideas all....I made a mark this evening after filling up and we will see how it goes for a couple of days. This thing uses water like my truck uses gas. The scary part is my neighbor hasn't been needing to add water as much as I have and he has the exact same pool. I will keep an eye on it.
    inground liner Grecian "L"
    34000 gallons
    1 HP whisperflo, TA100 sand filter
    Autopilot digital SWG, SC-60 cell
    Hayward Colorlogic LED lights

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    frankthailand's Avatar
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    leaky leaks

    i would say you definately have a leak and the first thing i would do is leave the pump off for 1 day and see if it still goes down that much if dose not could be the returns. if still goes down then it some where else either way 1or 2 inches a day is to much just for evap sorry ruin your day mine had a leak at main drain [which i put on the side just in case] lucky for me it was just the pipe also i filled my pool before backfilling the dirt cheers
    Frank
    Hello all from the land of smiles. Thailand. 5mx9mx1.5 63000L 16300 gall, pebbletex,
    pentair 1hp whisperflow, tagelus TA60 SF, swg monarch esc24 {a bit small for the tropics} 3 returns, 1 skimmer, 2 astral 100watt lights. Planned and built by me
    an AUSSIE expat living thailand for 18 years.

  8. Back To Top    #8
    I am starting to fear the worst. I brought the level up last night and made a pencil mark on a trim strip. Overnight I am down 3/8". It was pretty cold overnight, the wind was calm and the sun didn't shine....all points to a leak. That water went somewhere. No gunnite in my pool but I suppose there could still be a problem.
    inground liner Grecian "L"
    34000 gallons
    1 HP whisperflo, TA100 sand filter
    Autopilot digital SWG, SC-60 cell
    Hayward Colorlogic LED lights

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    Hey Rockyboy,

    Sorry to hear about your pool's woes but that should be your pb's headache not quite yours. Just carry out the bucket test as Jason mentioned and show the figures (it's foolproof) to your pb. You only worry about the mess he'll leave behind after fixing the problem (hopefully it will be very minimal).

    Vincent
    8,000 gal IG concrete & tiled lap pool, 1/2 hp pump, 24" sand filter, SWG Auto Clean, whole pool under shed, 3 X 2ft waterfall one end overflow the other end. TF100 Testkit. 80 F Water whole year round.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Talked with the PB today and he actually suggested that I do the bucket test which means that he is familiar with it

    Although he sounds a bit frustrated with me, at least he is working with me. Stay tuned.
    inground liner Grecian "L"
    34000 gallons
    1 HP whisperflo, TA100 sand filter
    Autopilot digital SWG, SC-60 cell
    Hayward Colorlogic LED lights

  11. Back To Top    #11
    It sounds like a leak to me. Our last pool was like that. It was leaking around the skimmer basket...

  12. Back To Top    #12
    In three days this week, the pool lost over three inches and the bucket less than 1. PB now has us doing two 24 hour tests. One with pump on and one off. I wonder if he is reading this forum? So it sounds like he is thinking there is a leak as well. I am really hoping the leak is around a drain or skimmer and NOT under the concrete decking.
    inground liner Grecian "L"
    34000 gallons
    1 HP whisperflo, TA100 sand filter
    Autopilot digital SWG, SC-60 cell
    Hayward Colorlogic LED lights

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
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    Malaysia
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    When he ask you to run the two test, he's acknowledging the leaks. The two test will determine if the piping are leaking or the pool itself is leaking.

    No harm in him reading this forum. We are no saying anything negative about him or others who ply their trade well. But rather, he'll know that you got an army behind you.
    8,000 gal IG concrete & tiled lap pool, 1/2 hp pump, 24" sand filter, SWG Auto Clean, whole pool under shed, 3 X 2ft waterfall one end overflow the other end. TF100 Testkit. 80 F Water whole year round.

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    I had a bad leak like you described. I purchased a leak detector which was more accurate than the bucket tester for $69.00 on line. I recomend it because I documented it with digital pictures and the PB could not refute the findings.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    i'VE FALLEN IN AND i DON'T WANT TO GET OUT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medelman2k
    I had a bad leak like you described. I purchased a leak detector which was more accurate than the bucket tester for $69.00 on line. I recomend it because I documented it with digital pictures and the PB could not refute the findings.
    What leak detector did you buy and how does it work?

    Thanks
    blubluenoiseise

    My pool: 14,750 gallons in-ground plaster
    FAFCO Solar panels (seven 4' x 12') with a Goldline automatic controller
    1/2 HP WhisperFlo filter pump, Kreepy Krauly cleaner, Cartridge Filter
    Aquarite SWG, Satisfied user of the TF-100 Test Kit

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    This is what I purchased, it worked really well
    http://www.leaktools.com/mm5/merchant.m ... _Code=FIND
    i'VE FALLEN IN AND i DON'T WANT TO GET OUT.

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Can anybody in AZ share how much their level drops in a week when the weather is warm? My pools only been finished for a few weeks, so I don't know what's "normal". I'ts losing 2-3 inches a week. Is this excessive, or normal for the dry 100+ degree weather in AZ?

    I haven't yet done a bucket test, but will try it this weekend.
    Good Times

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Water Evaporation, Related to Temperature Difference?

    Am I correct also that evaporation increases with temperature difference? We were heating our pool over the weekend, but now the weather is turning cold again. Our pool has lost 3/4 inch in the last 24 hours. It was heated to 79 degrees, and then we shut off the heater before dinner yesterday. It was still 77 degrees this morning, but the overnight temperature was 66, and today it stayed in the low 70's and dropped to 60 by dinner. It is going to be 49 tonight, and the pool is still 75 degrees. That 25 degree difference is going to evaporate a lot of water, correct? This is unusually cold weather, even for our area. I probably should not have bothered to heat the pool, but it was Memorial Day and family time.
    Steven Harrod
    Dayton (Washington Township), Ohio

  19. Back To Top    #19
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Right, evaporation increases with temperature difference. It also increases as humidity falls.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    That makes sense, as our lows are still in the 60's. (Gotta love the desert) I notice more evaporation when it's cold outside.

    Still haven't done the bucket test...spent too much time swimming this weekend instead. I'm sure I'll get to it sometime...
    Good Times

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