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Thread: Differences in Quad-DE and Standard DE Filters

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    stever's Avatar
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    Differences in Quad-DE and Standard DE Filters

    I started asking about filters in my pool-build thread, but will continue here as this is equipment related:

    JasonLion offered the following when I asked about upgrading from the Pentair FNS-Plus-60 to the Quad-DE-100 filter:

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    The Pentair Quad DE filters are very well thought of and are fine with a SWG. The larger filter will be a good investment, less backwashing and just slightly higher system efficiency.
    I believe this will increase efficiency, lengthen times between cleans, lower pressues, etc. But a few questions:

    How does this filter differ from standard DE filters? Seems instead of a mesh grid there is a pleated-material (cartrifge looking) like cylinder inside. I'm sure this is how the extra area is achieved. Is this a hybrid between a cartridge filter and a DE filter? Will the 'cartridges' the DE sits on last as long as the typical DE grid? They do not look like they will be able to be TSP/acid washed as a DE would typically be washed. Will they get build-up like the standard DE grids and if so -- how are they cleaned -- or are they just replaced....

    I'll have a seperation tank for backwashing -- I assume it will work the same way...? (other than having more DE to seperate - 10 lbs)

    I'd love to hear from anybody who has one of these. I trust JasonLion's opinion -- just would love to hear from somebody who has had to live with one (and clean it).

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

  2. Back To Top    #2
    I don't own one, but one is part of my pool-build package. We are opting for the Quad D.E. 80. From what I've researched it's really the best of the cartridge world and the DE world. You get the filtration of DE without having to backwash. You can just clean the cartridges off inside the tank or pull them out and clean them. The cartridges go back in and you add DE, that's it until the cartridges have to be replaced. My PB said he doesn't even install them with the backwash valve. The cartridges are supposed to last as long or longer than a typical grid.
    20,000 plaster in ground (finally blue!), Hayward C-1100 Cartridge Filter and Baracuda G4 Automatic Cleaner

  3. Back To Top    #3
    stever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandal
    You get the filtration of DE without having to backwash. You can just clean the cartridges off inside the tank or pull them out and clean them. The cartridges go back in and you add DE, that's it until the cartridges have to be replaced. My PB said he doesn't even install them with the backwash valve. The cartridges are supposed to last as long or longer than a typical grid.
    Hmmm... Where does the DE go if yo don't backwash? I understand you can backwash, clean inside w/o removing or remove and clean -- but at some point, I'd assume the DE has to be removed and replaced.

    Thanks for the info -- sounds like they wil alst a long time.
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

  4. Back To Top    #4
    I think you just rinse off the DE at the same time that you rinse the filter. The Quad does have the option to backwash as well.
    20,000 plaster in ground (finally blue!), Hayward C-1100 Cartridge Filter and Baracuda G4 Automatic Cleaner

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    stever's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the quad de 100 -- but don't want to be taken by the maketing. Most of what I read is from Pentair.

    Our PB is giving me a lot of push-back on the quad. Says it will not last as long and is more difficult to clean. Seems opposite of what I have read.

    Of course he might just hesitate because he relies on the 'old standard' filters that always work.....

    Any idea on the lifespan of the quad filters? Will they last as long as the typical DE grids?

    Thanks,
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

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    I've had the quad 100 since my pool was put in service last June. The pool is approx 25k and the water clarity is amazing. I currently turnover half the volume and water remains very clear and clean. In the summer with daily swimmer loads I turnover around 21k. I've cleaned it twice and it's coming due for another one. Actually, I elect to keep it clean for minimal power usage on my intelliflo pump. When clean I run 0-1# psi at 27 gpm and 165 wattts. Once I hit 300+ watts I clean it. I know it can go longer but I guess I'm a tightwad! Besides it's incredibly easy to do. I remove the carts from the filter body and flush the residue out of the bottom drain. I did not plumb a backwash line. Once put together and charged I dump a slurry of DE into a skimmer and I'm done. Takes about 30-45 minutes. The carts still look brand new. I'm thinking of doing the electrasol soak the next time. Based on my experience I would recommend this filter. And no, I'm not a Pentair rep. In fact, I'm somewhat critical of them. I'm glad my PB suggested getting the largest size. If building another pool I'd go the same route. I did help my neighbor clean his grid filter. No joy there! I would suggest skimmer socks, esp. if pollen and tree debris is common. Since using them I've noticed that my filter psi stays at 0 considerably longer than without them. If you doubt their effectiveness look at them after you cut the lawn. Quite amazing. A pair last me around 2-3 months.

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    stever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmoss
    I've had the quad 100 since my pool was put in service last June. The pool is approx 25k and the water clarity is amazing. I currently turnover half the volume and water remains very clear and clean. In the summer with daily swimmer loads I turnover around 21k. I've cleaned it twice and it's coming due for another one. Actually, I elect to keep it clean for minimal power usage on my intelliflo pump. When clean I run 0-1# psi at 27 gpm and 165 wattts. Once I hit 300+ watts I clean it. I know it can go longer but I guess I'm a tightwad! Besides it's incredibly easy to do. I remove the carts from the filter body and flush the residue out of the bottom drain. I did not plumb a backwash line. Once put together and charged I dump a slurry of DE into a skimmer and I'm done. Takes about 30-45 minutes. The carts still look brand new. I'm thinking of doing the electrasol soak the next time. Based on my experience I would recommend this filter. I'm glad my PB suggested getting the largest size. If building another pool I'd go the same route.
    Thank you very, very much for the review. The more people I talk to the better it sounds -- is there a downside? Only possibly the cost of the filters/cartridges. Time will tell how long they will last.

    -How big is your pool?
    -Do you have the VS or the VF Intilliflo pump?
    -When you flush the DE out the bottom drain where does it go?
    -I have a seperation tank spec'd -- will this work (with a back-wash valve)?

    I too will be going with the 100 sf model -- not much more $$ -- why not?

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

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    My pool is 25k gallons. I hose off the carts in my yard. The little remaining DE/dirt in filter housing is hosed out of the drain onto the lawn as well. In both cases the resulting "pile" of crud quickly dissipates from rain and/or sprinkler system. This practice doesn't appear to harm my lawn. And why should it? I have the variable flow intelliflo pump. The biggest advantage I see over the VS is that with the VF as the filter loads with dirt the pump will speed up to maintain the desired flow rate whether it's filtering or running the cleaner or a water feature. The price was the same from my PB. The VF can be quirky. However, I don't know if there is a pump out on the market that can filter a pool more efficiently. Others on this board are much more knowledgeable on that. I only speak from my real world experiences. Since installing this pump I can not see a discernible increase in kw usage on my electric bill. Even during the shoulder seasons when my hvac systems don't run. Get the biggest filter. That should give you longer cleaning intervals with minimal backpressure.
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    stever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmoss
    I have the variable flow intelliflo pump. The biggest advantage I see over the VS is that with the VF as the filter loads with dirt the pump will speed up to maintain the desired flow rate whether it's filtering or running the cleaner or a water feature. The price was the same from my PB. The VF can be quirky. Since installing this pump I can not see a discernible increase in kw usage on my electric bill.
    Thanks tmoss,

    The VF quirky? In what way? I remember way back hearing something about the VF not working well with solar... can't find the post again. Certainly a geed deal to get the VF at the same price as the VS! (unless the VS was marked up to match the VF )

    You have not seen an increase in Kw usage? I would think not as it is supposed to save you elect. usage.

    Thanks again!
    Steve
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    The VF works off of flow, which is not measured by a flowmeter. It uses current draw and pressure to derive a flow rate. As a result the pump can be fooled by a particular operating condition. From what I have seen with my legend II cleaner it doesn't do well at high pressure, low flow conditions. I've managed a way around that that works best when my filter is kept clean. The cleaner works fine. The pump or as least my pump doesn't seem to like a whole lot of head with minimal flow. As for using with solar I don't know. I've had several issues with the intellitouch which I'd rather not get into at this time. As for electricity usage I've haven't seen an increase since getting the pool. I've heard various accounts of people paying dearly to run a pool pump. I figure mine costs maybe $6-10/month including the swg. That's at $.10/kw.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    stever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmoss
    I've had several issues with the intellitouch which I'd rather not get into at this time. As for electricity usage I've haven't seen an increase since getting the pool. I've heard various accounts of people paying dearly to run a pool pump. I figure mine costs maybe $6-10/month including the swg. That's at $.10/kw.
    Thanks -- I thought you meant that you had net seen any increase fron your previos pump.... seems you mean no big increase from BP (before pool) -- that makes more sense! Though at who knows what high rate here in So Cal I expece to see some Extra $$ go out the window (liike like we are at $0.15/Kwh -- but that's for 'basline' -- as the usage goes up, so does the rate... ).

    I'd love to speak with you (or PM) about your experience with the Intellitouch as I am planning on installing one as well.\ (it it's not too painful to you).

    Thanks again (and sorry for the lastg few off-subject posts -- I just got going......)
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

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    el duderino's Avatar
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    Re: Differences in Quad-DE and Standard DE Filters

    So what is the cost difference from upgrading from the FNS Plus to the Quad? My PB has spec'ed the FNS Plus 36" for our proposed 16k pool. Would it be worth upgrading and if so, which Quad model would be sufficient?

    To the original poster, what did you end up doing and can you comment on the choice?

    Thanks!
    Our pool- (in process)
    38x15 Free Form Gunite (3.5'-8'), 26' Negative Edge and 7' Negative Edge spa with blower, Midnight Blue Diamondbrite, AquaLogic PS-8 control, Goldline Salt Chlorine Generator, 1.5hp Pentair 2 speed pumps (2), Pentair DE Filter, Pentair 400k BTU Heater, and BlackMaxPolaris 280 cleaner with Hayward booster pump

    build diary

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    stever's Avatar
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    Re: Differences in Quad-DE and Standard DE Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by el duderino
    So what is the cost difference from upgrading from the FNS Plus to the Quad? My PB has spec'ed the FNS Plus 36" for our proposed 16k pool. Would it be worth upgrading and if so, which Quad model would be sufficient?

    To the original poster, what did you end up doing and can you comment on the choice?

    Thanks!
    I dodn't remember exactly, but it was less than $200 to go from the 60sf FNS to the 100sf Quad DE. I will always recommend the largest filter as it is usually only a few more dollars and well worth it in extended time between cleanings and lower pressure (read more flow/less $$).

    The 100sf quad DE is way more than 'needed' for your pool, but you might still want it.

    Steve
    Pool: 625 SF Free-Form In-Ground Shotcrete Pool w/7.5' dia spa.(8 jets), 24" raised bond beam (22,500 gal)
    Pentair Equip: Intelliflo VF Pump, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IC40 SWG, Quad DE 100 Filter
    Automation: IntelliTouch i7+3 (+ extender panel), 6 Jandy Automated Valves (S, R, Spa Bypass, Solar, Cleaner, Spillway)
    Other: 75% Solar, Kreepy Kruiser Cleaner, Tan Hip-Hop Diving Board (a bit curved) on 606 Cantilever Base (SR Smith)
    Links: [TFP Pool Build Thread] - [TFP Landscaping Thread]

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