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Thread: Pulse Check on Pool Spec

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    Pulse Check on Pool Spec

    Hi There,
    This is my second post here. I am new to the pool business and hopefully will learn a lot from my coleagues here in the next few weeks/months.

    PB will start digging this week. Although we have already signed the contract, we tried to have as much included based on what I read onthe internet (gardeweb and here). Hopefully, my specs are going to appear in this post since I added to my profile. I'd like to hear from anyone out there about our specs and see if they make sense.

    Thanks and I look forward to a long lasting relationship with TFP.

    Regards.
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    My advice would be to forget the Nature2 and to carefully consider that big pump. I don't know how much water your water features require, but that pump is enormous for the pool otherwise.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  3. Back To Top    #3
    no comment on the actual specs, but that is SOME signature!!

    Welcome to TFP... someone will be along shortly to review your build!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    This would be a great application for a two speed, or variable speed, pump. That large pump is going to consume lots of electricity. When running the spa you might want that kind of power to get lots of action from the jets, but when circulating the pool it will be overkill. If you could circulate the pool on low speed and only go to high speed when running the spa you could save a lot of electricity.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  5. Back To Top    #5
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    Forget the Nature 2. If the Delzone system is only for the spa (and the spa is isolated from the pool) then it might be a worthwhile addition. Ozone is not as effective in pools, IMHO.

    The Rainbow is one of the better trichlor feeders but be aware that even with a DE filter and regular backwashing your pool will still most likely become overstabilzied if you use trichlor exclusively. Look into getting a SWG.

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    My advice would be to forget the Nature2 and to carefully consider that big pump. I don't know how much water your water features require, but that pump is enormous for the pool otherwise.
    Hi John,

    Which pump are you referring to and why?

    Stealth Circulation Pump 2.5HP?
    Stealth Booster Pump 1.0HP?

    Also, this Nature 2 was a pitch from the PB. I see another comment down saying that it is not a good thing. Do you think if I downgrade or eliminate items the PB would be willing to loose revenue or switch the features to something else?
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

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    Quote Originally Posted by p_pan

    Which pump are you referring to and why?

    Stealth Circulation Pump 2.5HP?
    Stealth Booster Pump 1.0HP?
    He's referring to the 2.5 hp pump. The booster pump will only run when your cleaner is running, so that's not a big deal. Buy holy cow, that is a mondo circulation pump!! It's going to eat you alive on energy costs. A multi-speed pump will be much more efficient, but you'll need a controls system (automation) to take advantage of it.
    Our pool adventure... click here

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Forget the Nature 2. If the Delzone system is only for the spa (and the spa is isolated from the pool) then it might be a worthwhile addition. Ozone is not as effective in pools, IMHO. .
    The SPA and Pool are not separated, as far as I know. What is the reason Ozone is not as effective in pools? Would you eliminate it in lieu of a salt system? Would you eliminate even if I don't go with salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    The Rainbow is one of the better trichlor feeders but be aware that even with a DE filter and regular backwashing your pool will still most likely become overstabilzied if you use trichlor exclusively. Look into getting a SWG.
    We always wanted a salt system but our PB and all other PBs in the North Texas are not recommending it and want you to sign a waver for stone, copying, deck, wires, and equipment damages.
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TresW
    Quote Originally Posted by p_pan

    Which pump are you referring to and why?

    Stealth Circulation Pump 2.5HP?
    Stealth Booster Pump 1.0HP?
    He's referring to the 2.5 hp pump. The booster pump will only run when your cleaner is running, so that's not a big deal. Buy holy cow, that is a mondo circulation pump!! It's going to eat you alive on energy costs. A multi-speed pump will be much more efficient, but you'll need a controls system (automation) to take advantage of it.
    Could the pump power have to do with the distance of the equipment from the pool which is around 45 feet from the pool? What other options of pump are out there?
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    circulation pump

    Here is my ignorant view on this. Please let me know if it makes sense or if I am still off.

    The large pump is for the pool and SPA and it is a circulation pump with 2 speed. Is it still overkill?

    The other small pump is for the 3 water features (stone scupers). According to the pool builder, I could have used a single pumple for all but I could not use the SPA and the water features at the same time. Does it make sense?
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by p_pan
    Do you think if I downgrade or eliminate items the PB would be willing to loose revenue or switch the features to something else?
    I just saw that you mentioned in another thread that your PB is Riverbend Sandler, I'm sure you'll have no trouble negogiating some revisions with them. They're pretty honest from everything I've heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by p_pan
    We always wanted a salt system but our PB and all other PBs in the North Texas are not recommending it and want you to sign a waver for stone, copying, deck, wires, and equipment damages.
    It's a problem in our area (DFW) if you have stone. Apparently our local stone is more susceptible to damage/ erosion from salt systems than in other areas of the state and country. Our PB (Hobert) also will not install an SWG with stone coping. They'll install it with other copings though.
    Our pool adventure... click here

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    Quote Originally Posted by TresW
    It's a problem in our area (DFW) if you have stone. Apparently our local stone is more susceptible to damage/ erosion from salt systems than in other areas of the state and country. Our PB (Hobert) also will not install an SWG with stone coping. They'll install it with other copings though.
    Tresw,
    Did you go with chlorine then? If so, was it an easy decision?
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: circulation pump

    Quote Originally Posted by p_pan
    Here is my ignorant view on this. Please let me know if it makes sense or if I am still off.

    The large pump is for the pool and SPA and it is a circulation pump with 2 speed. Is it still overkill?

    The other small pump is for the 3 water features (stone scupers). According to the pool builder, I could have used a single pumple for all but I could not use the SPA and the water features at the same time. Does it make sense?
    Looks like we're typing at the same time

    You want a low pump speed for circulation as you will be circulating 8 to 12 hours a day depending on the season and bather load. Then you'll want to ramp it up for running the spa. If that pump is 2 speed then it's probably OK. As far as not being able to run the spa and water features at once with one pump, he's probably right because that's a lot of water flow.
    Our pool adventure... click here

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Proper sizing of pumps is a rather arcane art. Instead of doing it right many pool builders simply put in a larger pump than is really needed. Customers tend to be happy because they see lots of water movement and figure everything is working. By the time they get the electric bill the builder is long gone.

    It is possible that your spa actually needs the large pump when the jets are on, though that seems less than certain. But there is no way normal circulation and filtering needs a pump that big. Even if that is the right size for the spa you could save a lot of electricity by having a two speed or variable speed motor so you can run it on a lower speed when the spa is off.

    The distance from the equipment pad to the spa, the number and size of the pipes, the number and kind of jets, and a couple of other minor details all play into the size of pump you need. 45' is a fairly standard distance, not something that normally requires a large pump. The kind of jet used in the spa is probably the deciding factor in this case, in particular their design flow rate. If you are getting high flow rate jets then you probably need the larger pump. But it is all fairly speculative without a full work-up with all the details.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Hi There,

    It's been a while since I posted here. It's been a busy process to build our pool and learn about several things that were not business as usual for us.

    I am writting today to ask for help with our pumps. We discussed a little bit about the whole thing back when I posted this thread but after I paid attention to the pumps I got, I was a little puzzled.

    Basically, we just finished decking and will do plaster next. Our equipment is installed and I notice that we have the following pumps installed:

    1) Jandy SHPM 2.5
    2) Jandy SHPM 1.0
    3) Booster Pump (I guess it is CSA ENC 2 or LR51044... if I am reading this correctly).

    Anyway, I have a feeling we are getting a single speed pump for our pool/spa. The pools is a 15,500 gallons and the spa has 6 jets. Also we have 2 fountains, one in the taning ledge and one in the spa. Additionally, we have installed 3 water features (18" by 18" stone scupers to shoot water on the pool).

    Is it right to say that I am getting a single speed pump? Also, what is the impact in terms of energy consumption and the bottom line difference in terms of additional dollars on my monthly energy bill?

    Also, if this is a big deal, can this system be changed still to a variable or 2 speed pump? What would be the additional cost involved?

    Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  16. Back To Top    #16
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Jandy Stealth SHPM pumps come in both single speed and dual speed versions. You need to look at the name plate and get the exact model number, or study the wiring diagram, to be sure which you have.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Based on the specs I got on their website, it seems that if I had gone with the SHPM 2.5-2, the last "2" probably means 2 speeds. Mine says SHPM 2.5 only, which apparently it is the single speed.
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    p_pan,

    I don't see any details of your pool spec or equipment specs in your signature?

    Are your pumps installed yet? If not, I would ask the pool builder to give you the hydraulic calculations he did in order to size the pumps and other equipment. (And if he says he did not do a hydraulic calculation, then please send him here so we can educate him a little. Or give us his e-mail address and phone number )

    At the very least, copy down the COMPLETE nameplate data from all of your pumps, and the flow requirements of your spa jets. Maybe we can use that data and try and nail down some solid recommendations for you.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
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    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Pump Size

    I noticed my pool specs were no longer in the signature portion. Here are the specs:

    - 15,500 gallons
    - Perimeter: 88
    - 28'5" by 16'4"
    - IG gunite
    - 4 main drains
    - 5 returns
    - 2 skimmers
    - Auto-Fill
    - Filter: Jandy DE 60
    - Heater: LAARS Lxi 400
    - SWG: Aquapure Salt System (added as addendum)
    - Jandy PDA PS6 controller
    - Rainbow 320 Chlorinator (they keep this even though it is a SWG)
    - Polaris 280 Complete with booster pump

    Pumps:

    Jandy 2.5HP Stealth Circulation Pump

    [img][/img]

    [img][/img]


    Jandy 1.0 HP
    [img][/img]



    Booster Pump
    [img][/img]


    Also, I don't have the flow requirements of the SPA. I have not been able to get in touch with my PB (Riverbend Sandler) but I hope we will be able to get to the bottom of this next week.

    Here are the pictures of the pool along with the 3 water features, the spa with 6 jets, and finally, a couple of shots from the equipment

    [img][/img]



    [img][/img]

    [img][/img]



    Is this enough information to get some advice on whether we should upgrade the pump to 2 speeds, downgrade, etc? Also, what is the bottom line in terms of utility bills of this configuration versus a recommended one, if applicable.

    Thanks for any feedback on this.
    IG, 15,500 Gallons, DE 60 Filter, Pebble (RiverRock)

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    If you do a search here you will find plenty of information about the benefits of 2-speed / variable speed pumps over single speed versions. In general:

    Single Speed-> Cheap now most expensive to operate

    2 Speed-> More expensive now less expensive to operate

    Variable Speed-> Most expensive now cheapest to operate.

    In mine, and many others opinion, the variable speed is the way to go because the long term operating cost will be lowest.
    11000 Gals, Intelliflo, Sta-Rite Cartridge, Polaris 360

    Pool I built in my old house: my-new-pool-build-t4534.html

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