Liquidator vs Peristaltic Chlorine pump

[randytsuch]

I am trying to find a kind of semi-automatic way of sanitizing my pool.
Have considered, and for the time being, discarded ionizers, ozonators, minerals and SWG's.

So, I think I am left with two options at this point, a Liquidator, or a peristaltic pump.

I almost bought the Liquidator, thought a pump would be too expensive, but I found some cheaper pumps on ebay.

I found this link, which had some helpful guidance on how to hook it up.
http://www.truetex.com/poolcontrol.htm
I was not sure how to actually connect the pump to my pool plumbing, but this guy just drilled and tapped a hole in his pvc, to install a fitting for the 1/4" tubing from the pump. That makes it simple.

Also found this place, from a old thread here
http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?cat=53
for a chlorine storage tank.

Electrical is not a problem, I am not an electrician, but have done wiring around the house. I am in the process of rewiring part of the pool anyway, to install a new clock and wireless remote control.

The 8 gal Liquidator is $180 plus shipping, so I figure $200.

An Ebay pump, and tank should be about the same price, maybe a little more, but not too much. I am looking at the LMI unidose line of pumps. Price is OK, Outdoor nema enclosure, and is 220V (less electrical).

So, the pump may cost a little more, and will be more work to install, but would give me more/better control over the chlorine feed. It won't vary depending on how much chlorine is in the tank. And the chlorine will be injected after the heater, instead of before the filter. Not sure if my equipment will care or not.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

Randy

 

[Aquaman95]

For a cheap drum that will work well, just pick up a PE drum locally. You can get them in 5, 15, 30, and 55 gallon sizes. Ag stores sell them cheap or you could probably pick one up from a chemical distributor. Many of them dispose of them because of DOT re-testing laws. Just make sure you get one that was previously used for sodium hypochlorite or be sure it has been neutralized. Harcros, Brenntag, etc. are good bets.

Stay far away from the Unidos. It's a cheap version of an LMI industrial pump that already has plenty of inherent problems pumping bleach. Bleach gasses which creates air pockets in the head of the pump; unless it's bled off regularly or you have a degassing head it will cause the pump to lose prime. Bleach is also very corrosive and will destroy LMI diaphragms pretty quickly and they're much more expensive to replace and cause more damage to the pump than a peristaltic tube will.

There are good diaphragm pumps for bleach but they're too expensive for residential use for the most part.

Find a good peristaltic on ebay. A three roller head design is better or you need to use a check valve at the injection point for sure. Stenner's are a good choice as are some Blue-White's. Stay away from lab style pumps.

If you want to post some you're looking at and a price range you want to stay in I'd be happy to guide you.

 

[Aquaman95]

Here's a heck of a good deal on a pump that would work well for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/stenner-chemical-pu ... dZViewItem

The 10 GPM in the listing is wrong. It's 10 GPD, up to 100 PSI. You can change the tube to get up to 50 GPD at 25 PSI feed rate if you want. High pressure pumps just come with an injection check valve and smaller diameter feed tubes in the head.

 

[randytsuch]

For a cheap drum that will work well, just pick up a PE drum locally. You can get them in 5, 15, 30, and 55 gallon sizes. Ag stores sell them cheap or you could probably pick one up from a chemical distributor. Many of them dispose of them because of DOT re-testing laws. Just make sure you get one that was previously used for sodium hypochlorite or be sure it has been neutralized. Harcros, Brenntag, etc. are good bets.

Stay far away from the Unidos. It's a cheap version of an LMI industrial pump that already has plenty of inherent problems pumping bleach. Bleach gasses which creates air pockets in the head of the pump; unless it's bled off regularly or you have a degassing head it will cause the pump to lose prime. Bleach is also very corrosive and will destroy LMI diaphragms pretty quickly and they're much more expensive to replace and cause more damage to the pump than a peristaltic tube will.

There are good diaphragm pumps for bleach but they're too expensive for residential use for the most part.

Find a good peristaltic on ebay. A three roller head design is better or you need to use a check valve at the injection point for sure. Stenner's are a good choice as are some Blue-White's. Stay away from lab style pumps.

If you want to post some you're looking at and a price range you want to stay in I'd be happy to guide you.

Thanks for the advice.

Couple of questions.
What's an "AG store"?

OK, I will stay away from Unidos.
I know Stenner is good, but they are usually over $300, and I am trying to keep the price down.
I did find a place that sells the Stenner BDF pumps for a reasonable price, but the BDF is not recommended for outdoors, and it is a 120V pump. I do have a neutral nearby, so I could run a neutral and then use one of the hots to power it, but I would prefer to get a 220V pump.

What about pulsafeeder pumps?
Hanna's are cheap too, but I would guess that they are in the same category as unidos.

Randy

 

[Aquaman95]

Agriculture store...a place where they sell farming equipment.

Pulsafeeder's diaphragm pumps aren't any better than the Unidos for your application. Their Mec-o-matic Dolphin peristaltic could work but it is basically a throw away pump. On commercial applications they last a year or two and you buy a new one. Residentially they should last longer but they are only two roller pumps so you have to use the supplied check valve. You should be able to buy one new for just under $200.00.

As you said you could use one leg of the 220 to run a 110 pump if you found a good deal. 110v is going to be easier to find on ebay.

Frankly, unless you're willing to spend $500+ I'd forget about diaphragm pumps unless you don't mind doing a lot of repairs to a cheap one. Commercially, good ones can make sense but the good ones are just too pricey right now for residential.

 

[randytsuch]

Agriculture store...a place where they sell farming equipment.

Pulsafeeder's diaphragm pumps aren't any better than the Unidos for your application. Their Mec-o-matic Dolphin peristaltic could work but it is basically a throw away pump. On commercial applications they last a year or two and you buy a new one. Residentially they should last longer but they are only two roller pumps so you have to use the supplied check valve. You should be able to buy one new for just under $200.00.

As you said you could use one leg of the 220 to run a 110 pump if you found a good deal. 110v is going to be easier to find on ebay.

Frankly, unless you're willing to spend $500+ I'd forget about diaphragm pumps unless you don't mind doing a lot of repairs to a cheap one. Commercially, good ones can make sense but the good ones are just too pricey right now for residential.

Farming equipment.
I live in LA, I can find most things here, but you don't see a lot of farming stuff
But chemical companies we have, so I will try them.

And, I will keep an eye on ebay, and hopefully I can snag a good deal there.

Thanks alot for the advice.
This is intended to reduce my work, not give me something else to fix.

Randy

 

[jtm60]

how about this setup?

probably too expensive though as was mentioned earlier..i just know this company through my work, and have used their pumps in the past for chem injection..they are german made and make really nice stuff.

http://www.branluebbe.com/sites/branlue ... tation.pdf

you'd have to call a rep to get a price quote, but the smallest 60l (about 15.5 gal) size has a tank that is about 21" hight and 18" diameter.

 

[Sabot]

My vote is with the Liquidator. It's a very simple concept which works and has very low maintenance. In a season or two, I am going to automate it. I liked the concept so much, I purchased the PH Adjuster to manage my PH.

 

[dschlic1]

I just found this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HANNA-Pool-Chlorine ... m153.l1262

For $120 can be a throw away item!

 

[mas985]

If you are willing to do a bit of experimentation, then you could try this setup. It is a purely passive system much like the liquidator but also much less expensive and with less parts.
It requires more work for setup and less forgiving when the pumbing changes but so far it has worked for me.

 

[randytsuch]

how about this setup?

probably too expensive though as was mentioned earlier..i just know this company through my work, and have used their pumps in the past for chem injection..they are german made and make really nice stuff.

http://www.branluebbe.com/sites/branlue ... tation.pdf

you'd have to call a rep to get a price quote, but the smallest 60l (about 15.5 gal) size has a tank that is about 21" hight and 18" diameter.

Looks nice, but I think it is out of my budget. Would like to keep it

I just found this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HANNA-Pool-Chlorine ... m153.l1262

For $120 can be a throw away item!

I saw those, but aquaman thought they would not last long. If I go that route, I will try to get a peristaltic from ebay.

If you are willing to do a bit of experimentation, then you could try this setup. It is a purely passive system much like the liquidator but also much less expensive and with less parts.
It requires more work for setup and less forgiving when the pumbing changes but so far it has worked for me.

I ran across this thread yesterday, and thought it was interesting. I'll take another look at it. I was a little worried about backflow, guess I could add a checkvalve if I needed to.

My vote is with the Liquidator. It's a very simple concept which works and has very low maintenance. In a season or two, I am going to automate it. I liked the concept so much, I purchased the PH Adjuster to manage my PH.

I am starting to wonder if I should go with the Liquidator. There are advantages to not having any mechnical parts (other than the main pool pump) to have to worry about.

Thanks for all the input
Randy

 

[lovingHDTV]

Here's a heck of a good deal on a pump that would work well for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/stenner-chemical-pu ... dZViewItem

The 10 GPM in the listing is wrong. It's 10 GPD, up to 100 PSI. You can change the tube to get up to 50 GPD at 25 PSI feed rate if you want. High pressure pumps just come with an injection check valve and smaller diameter feed tubes in the head.

Would this pump work for Muratic Acid?

thanks,

 

[mas985]

If you are willing to do a bit of experimentation, then you could try this setup. It is a purely passive system much like the liquidator but also much less expensive and with less parts.
It requires more work for setup and less forgiving when the pumbing changes but so far it has worked for me.

I ran across this thread yesterday, and thought it was interesting. I'll take another look at it. I was a little worried about backflow, guess I could add a checkvalve if I needed to.

Top Fin makes a check valve which is all plastic and used for aquarium air pumps. This one would also work.

 

[randytsuch]

[/quote]

Top Fin makes a check valve which is all plastic and used for aquarium air pumps. This one would also work.[/quote]

Thanks for the link.
Looks pretty easy. I just have to figure out, and find an adaptor that fits into my pump.
I thought I could use an old powered chlorine bucket as my storage container for now, and see how it works.

Couple more questions
How do you keep the tube at the bottom of the storage tank?
What happens if the tank runs dry?

Randy

 

[Aquaman95]

If you are willing to do a bit of experimentation, then you could try this setup. It is a purely passive system much like the liquidator but also much less expensive and with less parts.
It requires more work for setup and less forgiving when the pumbing changes but so far it has worked for me.

I ran across this thread yesterday, and thought it was interesting. I'll take another look at it. I was a little worried about backflow, guess I could add a checkvalve if I needed to.

Top Fin makes a check valve which is all plastic and used for aquarium air pumps. This one would also work.

Wow! That's cheap for a Kynar body, Viton diaphragm check valve. Thanks for the link!

 

[mas985]

Couple more questions
How do you keep the tube at the bottom of the storage tank?
What happens if the tank runs dry?

Randy

The hose through the tank is a pretty tight fit so it stays where you place it. Also, the irrigation hose is quite stiff which helps as well. If you use another tank without a hole, then you can drill a hole such that it is a tight fit.

If the tank runs dry, and I tested this, the pump sucks in some air but since the flow rate from the tank is so reduced (i.e. drip button flow reducers), the amount of air that is sucked is very very small and hardly noticeable. The worst that can happen is that a little air builds up in the filter but most filters have an air bypass that will remove any air. The pump gets plenty of water from the pool so the little air that is introduced is no problem at all.

 

[mas985]

Wow! That's cheap for a Kynar body, Viton diaphragm check valve. Thanks for the link!

The only problem is that they charge $7 for shipping. Still not a bad deal. Someone is also selling Kynar check valves on e-bay for about the same.

 

[keithw]

I still think the liquidator is hands down a better approach than a separate pump. It doesn't take any additional electricity, there is no additional piece of equipment that can break, it's very affordable at $133.00, it traps a lot of sediment that a pump will not trap, and it works. I have yet to see a single person who has bought one of these post a message saying that it doesn't work for them.

 

[Aquaman95]

I still think the liquidator is hands down a better approach than a separate pump. It doesn't take any additional electricity, there is no additional piece of equipment that can break, it's very affordable at $133.00, it traps a lot of sediment that a pump will not trap, and it works. I have yet to see a single person who has bought one of these post a message saying that it doesn't work for them.

I agree with you in spirit and based off of the limited reports on this forum. However, I have learned after years in this industry not to stand too firmly behind a product until it has been in the market with a fairly diverse install base. Right now, we have what appears to be a fairly small sample to judge this unit on. It seems to be doing well, but I don't think there's any long term data yet and not much of it. I'm certain it hasn't been used on the wide gamut of possible scenarios found either.

That said, the only real downside I see with it is some of the low grade tubing and fittings that come with it. I don't see those regularly lasting much more than a season or two. The good news is they are simple and cheap to replace.

I'm more comfortable with certain chemical pumps than the Liquidator just because I've worked with so many of them and I'm intimately familiar with the strong and weak points of each based on literally thousands of installations.

Which one's better for the average homeowner? I'm not sure yet. For the average no-maintenance homeowner it may be neither.

 

[randytsuch]

I still think the liquidator is hands down a better approach than a separate pump. It doesn't take any additional electricity, there is no additional piece of equipment that can break, it's very affordable at $133.00, it traps a lot of sediment that a pump will not trap, and it works. I have yet to see a single person who has bought one of these post a message saying that it doesn't work for them.

FYI, price has gone up a little. It is now $148, for the 4 gal model. Still affordable, but a little more. Not sure how much shipping is.

Randy