Anyone using Zeobrite/Zeosand?

[pastypique]

Am having a new pool installed this June and the PB recommended a Hayward cartridge filter but I changed to a sand filter with Zeobrite instead of sand, based purely on what I have read on other forums. Has anyone here used Zeobrite as a replacement for sand in a sand filter? Anything I should be aware of? Did I fall for a marketing ploy?

Thanks.

Dave H.

 

[KurtV]

I don't think you fell for anything but I don't think zeowhatever lives up to all the hype. Here's my take on filter choices.

 

[nivek911]

I have a Hayward sand filter with Zeobrite based on the suggestion of the PB. I talked to two builders, one suggested cartridge and one suggested Sand w/Zeo. The one that suggested cartridge is known to be more of a high volume, more chemicals kind of a company. The PB suggesting sand/zeo seemed to suggest low maintenance steps (just clorine, a puck, and weekly shock). I read tons of postings on various forums which listed the pros and cons of both. To me, cartridge made the most sense due to being on well water. I just didn't want to have the waste of backwashing the filter.

I called to switch the order to a cartridge filter. The sales guy told me it was ultimately my decision, but went back through the cons of the cartridge (cleaning, costs, etc). They really believe sand w/zeo is easier to maintain and the best choice. He stated that he has sand w/zeo at home, and doesn't have to backwash at all during the season. He feels that when, not if, you get an algea problem, that a sand w/zeo filter can handle the problem better without the constant cleaning of cartridge filters. He did suggest skimmer socks, which after just 1 week with the pool, I can tell is an excellent suggestion to keep junk out of the filter (cartridge or sand).

So, if I can get through a season with 1 2 minute backwash and get cartridge or better water filtration, then sand w/zeo would win in my book. We'll see.. I can definately understand your hesitation. Good luck with your decision.

 

[KurtV]

I have a Hayward sand filter with Zeobrite based on the suggestion of the PB. I talked to two builders, one suggested cartridge and one suggested Sand w/Zeo. The one that suggested cartridge is known to be more of a high volume, more chemicals kind of a company. The PB suggesting sand/zeo seemed to suggest low maintenance steps (just clorine, a puck, and weekly shock). I read tons of postings on various forums which listed the pros and cons of both. To me, cartridge made the most sense due to being on well water. I just didn't want to have the waste of backwashing the filter.
You might get through a season without backwashing but probably only if you get very little junk in the pool (leaves, dirt, etc.), you oversize the filter (which is good practice anyway), you keep the pump strainer cleaned out on a regular basis, and you use the skimmer socks. I probably have to backwash mine every four to six weeks as I don't have any of those conditions except that I keep the pump strainer cleaned out regularly.

...

So, if I can get through a season with 1 2 minute backwash and get cartridge or better water filtration, then sand w/zeo would win in my book. We'll see.. I can definately understand your hesitation. Good luck with your decision.

In my two years of experience with a zeo filled sand filter, I don't think you get cartridge or better filtering with it. As waterbear and other have pointed out on other forums, though the individual particles of zeo do have very tiny passages within them that could theoretically filter down to the DE level, the spaces between the pieces themselves aren't any smaller than the spaces between sand particles. So water will take the path of least resistance and just flow, for the most part, between the pieces of zeo. Some smaller stuff will get trapped in the zeo particles so you'll see moderately better performance than sand, but not DE or cartridge level.

Zeo does have some ammonia scavenging ability that may help reduce your chlorine demand but I'll leave it to waterbear and chemgeek to tell us whether that is of real, practical benefit in pools.

 

[Buggsw]

Over the years I've had Sand, DE Filter and now am back to a Micron s750 Sand filter with ZeoBest.

I can tell you that my filter with Zeobest is as good as my DE filter ever was. I love not having to deal with the DE powder and the maintenance of the filter and the clarity of my water is just fabulous! I've hardly had to backwash my pool, either - at least no more often than my old DE filter.

Perhaps the brand of Zeolyte makes a difference.

Personally, I think cartridge filters are a pain in the patootie having to remove the cartridges and hose them off and the expense to replace them was a major consideration. My neighbor has one and isn't happy with the work it takes. I was skeptical but I know a lot of neighborhoods no longer allow DE anymore around here, so that was another reason I went with the Sand filter. I also have a cartridge filter on my separate small spa - even that small cartridge is a pain in the neck as far as I'm concerned.

I'm very happy with Zeo.

 

[Guest]

Zeobrite (zeollite filter medium), the next great hope, or is that hoax? some facts:
While it is true that zeolite has 'pores' in it that are micron sized the actual grains are bigger than sand grains for the most part. The rougher surface of the zeolite might catch a few extra particles so this should be a break even but water is NOT going to filter through it. In a pressurized ( or a non pressurized for that matter) filter water is going to take the path of least resistance, which would be AROUND the grains and not through them.
If you want fine filering and water polishing with a sand filter there is a very old trick of adding a bit of DE to the skimmer (enough to increase your filter pressure about 1 psi).. You are now filtering THROUGH DE. (Sand filters work better when the sand is slightly dirty so you have'dirtied' the sand). This DE will wash out on the next backwash but it is a simple and cheap solutions. Let's look at the costs. 50 lbs of filter sand cost between $6 and $10 dollars in most places. Zeolite filter medium weighs less for the same volume so approximately 1/2 the weight is needed. A 50 l b bag of the stuff goes for beteen $30 and $60 dollars so the equivalent 100 lbs of sand would cost you beteeen $12 and $20 dollars. Now let's throw in that bag of DE powder.A 5 lb bag goes for about $7 dollars (enough to last for quite a long time with a sand filter) and you can get a 25 lb bag for about $25 dollars. At the highest prices for 200 lb sand we are now up to $65 dollars with enough DE to literally last for years. The Zeolite media will cost in the neighborhood of around $100.
Now, let's get down to the nitty gritty of ammonia scavaging. This is the REAL reason to use Zeolite, right?
Well Zeolite has been used in fresh water aquariums for years for this very purpose and any aquairist can tell you it's ammonia scavaging properties are quickly depleted!. But it can be regenerated! You have to mix ujp a concentrated salt solution (which is why it is not used in salt water aquariums and is probably of limited benifit in pools with s SWG) and to save time in the cleaning process you might use this regeneration solution to mix up the sand bed cleaner solution so you only have to do this once instead of twice every 6 months! (remember, those tiny pores in the zeolite will clog up). You now have an acidic salt solution to dispose of. Backwash it into the lawn? Down the sewer? Into a drum to get carted away as hazardous waste?
(If you are maintaining a proper chlorine level for your CYA level and shock whenever your combined chlorine is above .5 ppm then what is the big deal about ammonia scavaging anyway?)
Now let's look at deep cleaning a sand filter (and yes they need it maybe yearly or so). You open the filter to expose the sand, stick a garden hose into it and turn it on. The sand will loosen and the dirt will overflow out of the filter. CAREFULLY use something like a broom handle to break up clumps and channeling (be very careful not to damage the laterals). When the water is running clear you are done, REassemble the filter and backwash again and recharge with DE and you are good to go. IF you notice a scale builup while doing this THEN it is time to break out the acid filter cleaner and clean your sand bed chemically.
Personally, I have a single element, oversized cartridge filter on my pool for the best compromise between water polishing and ease of maintenance. My filter would probably take over a year (and I have a 9 month swim season and the pool is not closed for the other 3) before I got any appreciable rise in filter pressure. I do clean my cart monthly however to make the maintenance go fast. It takes me between 15-20 minutes a month to open my filter, take out the dirty cart, drop in a clean one (I have 2 and rotate them), close the filter, clean out the pump basket, and hose off the dirty cart. I soak one cart in the spring and one in the fall so each get their yearly over night soak. I admit it's a bit more work than a sand filter but the water is almost as polished as a DE filter and THOSE are a lot of work. They really should be broken down to be cleaned, not backwashed or bumped but I'll save that for another thread!

 

[nivek911]

Waterbear:

In your opinion, is sand + a little DE as good or better than a cartridge? Also, out of curiosity, since I have Zeo installed already, can DE be added to Zeo as you've described?

 

[KurtV]

Yes, you can use DE with zeo.

 

[Guest]

Waterbear:

In your opinion, is sand + a little DE as good or better than a cartridge? Also, out of curiosity, since I have Zeo installed already, can DE be added to Zeo as you've described?

Sand will filter to about 60 microns and when it gets dirty to perhaps as low as 30 microns. Adding DE to the sand 'dirties' it. A cartridge will filter to about 20 microns and when dirty can get down to maybe 10 microns. DE will filter down to about 5 or 6 microns.

 

[kjcole]

Has anybody actually measured the performance of this stuff to evaluate the manufacturer's claims independently? If you pass dirty water through a properly sized pool filter using this stuff what are the biggest sized particles that come out? I have it only because the pool installer included it. Now I'm curious. But I may start using a little DE according to suggestions here.

Kelly

 

[JasonLion]

There are several people here, including me, who can see the difference in the water from adding a little DE to a sand filter. A while back someone did a very simple test with an ultra-centrifuge and found less total stuff in the water after adding DE. Various studies have been done on the three regular kinds of filters, with slightly varying but essentially consistent results. As far as I know, no one has every published any kind of detailed test results for adding DE to a sand filter.

 

[chem geek]

Has anybody actually measured the performance of this stuff to evaluate the manufacturer's claims independently? If you pass dirty water through a properly sized pool filter using this stuff what are the biggest sized particles that come out? I have it only because the pool installer included it. Now I'm curious. But I may start using a little DE according to suggestions here.

Kelly

Kelly,

I'm not sure it would make much sense to add DE to your filter that has Zeobrite in it. The Zeobrite is supposed to filter similar to DE though waterbear has pointed out how if the pores gets clogged then it may filter more like a regular sand filter. What is your experience with the Zeobrite? Does your water seem exceptionally clear, even polished, and with no visible particles at night with a light on in the pool? How often do you backwash your filter?

The suggestion of adding DE to a sand filter is for improving the performance of regular sand. No one has tried it on a filter with a zeolite product. Why do you want to add DE to your filter?

Richard

 

[kjcole]

I was wondering about independent tests of Zeobrite, not so much about adding DE to sand. I only mentioned adding DE to Zeobrite because it was suggested somewhere on this site, although perhaps I just imagined it.

I've been very happy with my water quality - very sparkly - and without a lot of work (thanks to the SWG, borates, and the automatic cleaner). At night I noticed a little particulate matter - but it wasn't enough to attract the attention of anybody else. In addition to my salt for the SWG I keep around 50 ppm borates. I used a solar cover religiously when no one was in the pool so I didn't backwash very often, only when the speed of my automatic cleaner dropped noticeably, or I noticed a 6 psi rise in pressure at the filter. (Maybe once every 3-4 weeks plus or minus). I did this because I was told that sand filters work a little better when they are a little dirty, and once my chemistry was dead on I didn't want to backwash out my stabilizer, salt and borates.

Hey, I'm happy to keep doing what works - just wondering if a few cups of DE to the Zeobrite would be worth the effort.

What a great site - nobody in my neck of the woods would have a clue about this stuff!

Kelly

 

[chem geek]

OK thanks for the info. You're welcome to add some DE to the filter and let us know how or if it works. Just add a small amount and note any pressure increase -- it might not take a cup to get a 1 PSI rise so start out with less (say, 1/4 cup) and see what happens.

 

[Bryan Goh]

I work for an Australian company, Waterco. We put together Zeoplus (Zeolite) + Garnet in a deep bed filter (500mm filter bed depth) to produce fantastic results. At a velocity of 20m3/hr/m2, we were able to attain below 10 microns in a lab test.

Plus we have recommended this combination to various water treatment professionals with great results.

 

[H2O_Keeper]

Found this link about filtration media alternatives (mostly for waste water treatment facilities), thought it could help others.

 

[Aquaclear-NZ]

The Australian Zelbrite company to my knowledge is the only one who has gone to the expense of having independent lab testing done through the university of adelaide, and are achieving filtratoin below 3 micron.
There is a areason that they dont publish this study online - and that is because they paid quite a bit of money for the tests, verivication can be obtained through the UofA. There are a number of zeolite mines around the world - in excess of 30, all selling a form of the product. However all zeolites are not created equal, and have a hardness level of between 4 and 8.5 on the mohs hardness scale. The australian Zelbrite is one of 3 mines obtaining a hardness level of 8.5. If their study is published then every inferior manufacturer will use this (As many already do) to sell an inferior product.
I have personally had enough of seeing the effects of "softer" zeolites over the last couple of years. Over time and under pressure in a filter the soft zelbrites have turned to the equivilant of cement and could not even be removed from the filter with a wrecking bar.

The particle size makes a difference as well, normal pool sand has a grade between 1.2 - 2.5mm (sorry i cant translate that to inches for you) and zeolite of the same particle size will filter to around 15 microns. Zelbrite is also available in a particle size of 0.4mm - 2.7mm, this is the grade tested by the university of adelaide.

While i dont subscribe to the ammonia removal as a selling point, it does provide a larger surface area, and therefore larger filter area tha sand by volume.

While i dont profess to being able to do lab testing myself, i have been in this industry for near on 18 years and have seen my share of swimming pools and differing media types. With the amount of work i do with lighting, i am often at clients houses at night, and this is where you can really see the diffference with little or no suspended matter shoing in the water reflecting light.

There is a range of different zeoltie available - so do your research and be wary of those using other manufacturers research - Zelbrite Australia is the only one that has actually done an independent test as far as i am aware , so i would be looking carefully at whose research they are quoting

 

[snapped]

I switched to ZEO 2 years ago and having been having issues with particulate matter /dust ever since. I plan on taking the filter cover off this weekend to check the condition see if its packed solid/crusting or has channels as I have read in some other posts. I have also seen references to recharging with some salt but no details on it.

Does anyone have any ideas on fixing the dust issue? What about the recharging?


As my signature says Been using BBB since last year and I love it. Taking off the safety cover at opening time is no longer a scary thought. My opening this year was the easiest ever, with the water clear and minor additions to bring chlorine and PH back to norms.

 

[dmanb2b]

folks...for what it's worth my sand works just fine...i'll take the 50-60 microns along with the rest of the junk on the pool bottom before I run the pool rover in the evening or vacum on weekends...water looks pretty clear to me

 

[ambrozlf]

I have had pools for 25 years -- I wanted to fill in my inground New jersey pool last year after 18 years but i opted for a new liner ($2800) -- Since my spouse wanted to still have a pool -- To me it's a waste now due to kids are older and seldom used -- But besides that and being a licensed water plant operator -- I have gone thru all the different filters --- We use sand & gravel here in our old 60 year old plant with wood filters -- So thinking outside the box -- I decided to try zeosand/brite? -- But to leave about 120 # of sand in the 300# Hayward filter -- At least to keep the radials covered and added 75# of ZEO on tiop of that -- After back washing -- it seems to be working great so far --

I like the sand filterbecause it gives you the option to go to waste -- Which i hook
up a cardridge filter to vacuumn with -- A idea i seen what my son condo pool was doing - having a portable cartridge filter on a wagon to get out the crud - And leave the main filter do its main job -- 73's << N2FGP