Cloudy Pool

[foosboy2]

All my research keeps leading me to posts on this website so here goes.

Detail of pool and chemicals are below in the signature.

Opening the pool for the season and since chlorine was down we, my local pool store and I, decided to treat some iron stains with Stain Free and Pro Team Metal Magic.

Let it run 2 days and then 2 shocks. The green that was there from opening the pool cleared but it is still cloudy. We have cleaned the filter several times including at least twice with Pro Team Filter Magic.

My local pool store likes these targets: PH min 7.2, target 7.4-7.6, max 7.8, Alkalinity min 150, target 150-240, max 250, Calcium or Hardness target 175-275, CYA target 40-50, Combined chlorine min is 0, target 0, max is 0.2, Free Chlorine and Total Chlorine target 3-5.

I took a water sample to another pool store and he said my Alkalinity and PH were off the chart and told me to add mercuric acid.

I double checked with my local pool store and they said the PH and the Alkalinity were ok and that my Chlorines were binding up and to use 8 bags of ProTeam shock and swim. They said the mercuric acid was a suggestion of hardware store and would throw everything out of wack. Since my Aquacheck test strips seem to indicate to me more in the line of my local pool store I tried their recommendation and stayed away from the mercuric acid. I put the shock and swim in on Friday night and today it is still cloudy with still no free chlorine and all the other levels look ok.

The local pool store now wants us to bring in water for a filter check. We bought the filter last August and clean it twice a week and also use the Pro Team Filter Magic

Kind Regards,
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
CH 400, PH 7.6, TA 180, CA 200, CYA 0, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3-5

 

[JasonLion]

Welcome to TFP!

What are your current levels? Just saying OK really doesn't tell us anything.

Your stores TA recommendations are far higher than what we recommend, so if your current levels are anywhere near there then I agree you should lower TA. Their PH range is one of the common ones. We recommend only the higher end of that range, but as long as you are in that range you are fine.

Using filter cleaner regularly is usually a waste of money. It is quite unusual for there to be any reason to use filter cleaner.

What are you using as a source of chlorine?

 

[WestSidePool]

Hey Mitch,
Glad you found the site. First there is a reason all your searches are bringing you hear. That's because it's amazing.
But to start off with, you should read what you can from the Pool School section in the upper right of the site.

The reason your probably seeing cloudy water is because you are not properly shocking your pool. Shocking is a process and not a product as pool stores sell you.
When shocking, you have to keep your chlorine levels high enough until you pass an overnight chlorine loss test. This test tells you when you are done and there are no more organics in the water.
Again all of this is written in detail in the Pool School section.

Others will most likely be around to chime in more on your post.

Good luck and welcome to TFP.

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, foosboy2

You are suffering from the inconsistent test results that many people get from pool stores. Our recommendation is to get an appropriate test kit, see my sig for a link.

With cloudy water, you should follow the approach of this link and do the shocking process: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/defeating_algae

I took a water sample to another pool store and he said my Alkalinity and PH were off the chart and told me to add mercuric acid.

I am pretty sure (I hope) he meant muriatic acid (HCl), which is what we recommend here for lower ph.

 

[foosboy2]

Tests today are CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

My source of chlorine is 3in pucks in the chlorinator set at the highest point, dispersing 2 bags of shock throughout the pool and then dispersing 9 bags of shock and swim throughout the pool.

I will check out the pool school section for shocking the pool.

Kind Regards,
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

 

[linen]

Tests today are CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

My source of chlorine is 3in pucks in the chlorinator set at the highest point, dispersing 2 bags of shock throughout the pool and then dispersing 9 bags of shock and swim throughout the pool.

Assuming (and that is dangerous here since you got those numbers from the pool store?) that your cya is somewhere 30-50, that is a good place for cya concentration (see: recommended levels), I would stop using the trichlor pucks since they are constantly adding to your cya. Keep in mind the shock and swim is calcium Hypochlorite and it adds calcium to your pool[EDIT: This proteam shock and swim is not calcium Hypochlorite it is a non-chlorine shock...see JasonLion's post below. linen]. Take a look at this pool school article on how to chlorinate your pool. Once you get your algae under control, and if you maintain the appropriate FC level for your cya level (see: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock) then you will not have to do the weekly shocking.

You will need a good test kit, or you will be flying blind.

 

[foosboy2]

Those numbers were from test strips. It is understood that we cannot use those.

My wife took water in today. There was no comment regarding the readings, only that the filter was not filtering and that we needed a new filter. Note that they do not sell my particular filter. They also said to add the remaining 3 ProTeam Shock and Swim bags.

How could I need a filter so soon after purchasing one. It may be just a coincidence but shortly after adding Stain Free and ProTeam Metal Magic I seem to need a new filter. Additionally, last filter replacement coincided shortly after the pool installers sanded down the many scratches that were visually seen in the pool. I think it was this that clogged that last filter.

How much suction should I have at the skimmer. It seems like low suction, however it seems like still good force from the jets and water coming down the slide.

We also had a fire on our heater last year. I was out of town and it was repaired prior to my return. It looked like it was the result of electrical from the pictures my wife took but the pool company said it was the result of the heater being placed on some sort of plastic/composit pad which caught on fire as a result from the heat.

Frustrated,
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

 

[JasonLion]

You can't possibly need a new filter. There is a remote chance that you need a new filter cartridge, but nothing you have said suggests that you actually do. I suspect that this is simply something the pool store people are making up to explain away the fact the they don't know what is happening.

The skimmer only needs to have enough suction to pull in floating debris. As long as that is working, you are fine.

What you need right now is a lot more chlorine. You need to get the FC level up to shock level, FC around 15 given your CYA level estimate. Take a look at the How To Shock Your Pool article in Pool School (link near the top right of every page). That lists all the steps you need to take.

Shock and Swim is a non-chlorine shock, which is alright but significantly more expensive than regular chlorine and not as effective at killing algae.

 

[march2012]

What you need right now is a lot more chlorine. You need to get the FC level up to shock level, FC around 15 given your CYA level estimate. Take a look at the How To Shock Your Pool article in Pool School (link near the top right of every page). That lists all the steps you need to take.

.

Also since most people dont catch this from the article:

Get it up to shock level and keep it there (even if it means adding bleach every 30 minutes) until
1) you lose less than 1ppm overnight
2) water is clear
3) <.5 combined chlorine

 

[foosboy2]

Yes they are saying we need a new filter cartridge not new filter. How do you know when you need a new cartridge filter? The pool store ran some test and said that our filter cartridge was not "catching" anything and that we needed a new filter cartridge despite buying a new one in August. They said that sometimes there are just cheap bad quality filter cartridges.

Okay I have read the how to shock and how to chlorinate information.

I will also note that when I opened the pool that all the surfaces had a brown "fuzz" on them. That was probably a high amount of algae? And two shock bags were not going to take all that away huh?

I will have my wife get liquid chlorine because it is 12% versus bleach at 6% and following the shocking procedure. I will also have her get new readings.
What about using some sort of an algaecide?

A little less frustrated.
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

 

[linen]

Shock and Swim is a non-chlorine shock, which is alright but significantly more expensive than regular chlorine and not as effective at killing algae.

Thanks JasonLion for correcting this. I assumed hth shock and swim...assuming uggg

 

[linen]

Yes they are saying we need a new filter cartridge not new filter. How do you know when you need a new cartridge filter? The pool store ran some test and said that our filter cartridge was not "catching" anything and that we needed a new filter cartridge despite buying a new one in August. They said that sometimes there are just cheap bad quality filter cartridges.

I would ignore this advice until you get the organics in your pool under control. Then let's see if you still "need" it.

What about using some sort of an algaecide?

Algaecide in some situations can help prevent algae, but it does no good getting rid of it once it's there. So skip the algaecide.

A little less frustrated.

Let us know as you have more questions.

 

[foosboy2]

Can I get the organics under control if the cartridge is bad?

Optimistic!
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

 

[steinholder]

Last Year, I had a couple of green algae attacks... that once killed the silt that sat on the bottom would pass right through my Intex cartridge filter. I learned the (really) hard way what "filtering to waste" means.

I had better luck siphoning straight to waste, and then getting new filters for my pump. I do not plan on having that issue this year, thanks to the good info and nice folks on this forum.

 

[linen]

Can I get the organics under control if the cartridge is bad?

Are you convinced that the cart is bad? I'm not. Post the brand and model of the filter cartridge and maybe others on here can comment on it's quality.

By the way, the filter only takes the remnants of dead organics out of the pool, it does not kill them. So in the unlikely scenario where your filter is bad (i.e. filter media being entirely bypassed due to being ripped, no longer sealing at the ends, etc.) you will still be able to pass the first two of the three criteria (in my sig). If you get to that point in the shocking process and your water doesn't clear within a few days after that, then we can troubleshoot the filtering...but I doubt we will need too

 

[foosboy2]

No I am not convinced that it is the filter cartridge that is just what the pool store said. Comments from the forum and research online all give no indication to my that it is the filter cartridge. However, last year when we had issues of cloudy water and after gallons of chlorine and tons of shock all of which seemed to turn the pool green, the new cartridge seem to fix it or at least that is how my wife and I remember it all happening. The pool store both this time and last time ran some sort of filter test with gallons of water that we brought in.

The filter system is a Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter system. Here is a picture of the system http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-2274/ ... Detail.bok

So Thankful for all the comments!
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
CH 250, PH 7.2, TA 180-240, CYA 30-50, Free Chlorine 0, Total Chlorine 3

 

[linen]

Post the brand and model of the filter cartridge and maybe others on here can comment on it's quality.

Sorry I wasn't more clear on this...I meant the actual filter media not the whole filter brand and model. Probably not necessary though as I (and I think you) suspect it is unlikely that is your problem.

The pool store both this time and last time ran some sort of filter test with gallons of water that we brought in.

I highly doubt with water that has organics in it, that a test like this will tell you anything. Others may have some thoughts on this since I am not sure what test they were running (if any).

 

[foosboy2]

The new pool store said that it is cloudy because of the dead algae. We have killed it, but it is still floating around. She recommended either shock and swim or 2 shock packets. Also that our alkalinity is off. Here are our results from today -

Free chlorine 1ppm
Total chlorine 6.55 ppm
Combined chlorine 5.55 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 280 ppm
Alkalinity 180 ppm
Cyanuric acid 10 ppm
Copper .02 ppm
Iron .27 ppm

My wife put 3 shock and swim's in. So should we go back and buy liquid chlorine or throw more regular shocks.
Should we also put the ph or alkalinity down in like they recommended?

So Thankful for all the comments!
Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine 1ppm
Total chlorine 6.55 ppm
Combined chlorine 5.55 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 280 ppm
Alkalinity 180 ppm
Cyanuric acid 10 ppm
Copper .02 ppm
Iron .27 ppm

 

[linen]

I assume your previous results were also from a pool store(the one where you had a cya level of 30-50), or where they from test strips? If they both are from pool stores, then you just experienced for yourself why you need a good test kit. Have you gotten one yet? We can not make good recommendations without consistent and fairly accurate test results. See link for appropriate test kits in my sig.

 

[foosboy2]

Point taken. Yes the previous results were from test strips. We have not purchased on yet but based on the information on the website it looks like we will be getting the TF100 rather than the other two.

My wife is doing the legwork because I am out of town and just jumping on the internet whenever I can.

So can there be any recommendation based on these results or are we on hold until we get a test kit? Or do we just follow the pool calculator? And which goal should I use traditional or troublefreepool.com? Should we buy liquid chlorine or throw more regular shocks.
Should we also put the ph or alkalinity down in like they recommended?

Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine 1ppm
Total chlorine 6.55 ppm
Combined chlorine 5.55 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 280 ppm
Alkalinity 180 ppm
Cyanuric acid 10 ppm
Copper .02 ppm
Iron .27 ppm