Yay...1st pool!!

[sduphily]

First post...

I will say now that I wish that I had started reading these forums before getting the pool. I wouldn't have changed any of the decisions on how it was setup, but now it seems like my head is spinning with numbers for the chemicals needed.

Anyway, my first issue would be with the AquaRite panel. There are readouts on it that can be scrolled through, but the manual isn't very intuitive as to what they all mean. I can figure a couple of them out, but the others are beyond me atm.

• 3000 - (This is the salt ppm I would guess)
  73
  31.0
  0.00
  68P
  -0
  AL - 0
  r 1.58
  E - 9 - (not really an "E"...the top is cutoff. I'm guessing referenceing the T-Cell-9)

Are any of these readouts reliable? As for the salt, I was given an AquaChek salt test strip and each and every time I test, it gives a readout at 6 (actually had 6.1 today earlier) which would mean the salt would be at around 2610-2830. The readout on the AquaRite constantly reads 3000...sometimes hits 3100.

I have ordered the K-2006...expect it on Monday. I have also ordered Taylor salt kit, but it hasn't shipped yet.

I have also been looking at the suggested ranges for chemicals from the pool store:

• FC - 2-4
  TC - 2-4
  CC - 0-10
  pH - 7.2-7.8
  Hardness - 175-280
  Alkalinity - 80-120
  CYA - 50-100
  Salt - 2700-3400

Most of the numbers don't look too far off from what I've read on this site, but I'm not sure about the hardness number. I have a vinyl pool and it seems a bit high from some of the posts I read...even though the Water Balance for SWGs section does say 50-300...maybe I'm over thinking it.

Anyway, until I get my real test kit, I also have an Aquachek test strip and I have been getting the following numbers:

pH - 7.8 (hit 8.4 one time yesterday)
FC - 1 during the day / 3 first thing in the morning
TA - 120 (hit 180 when I hit the pH of 8.4)
CYA - around 80-90 atm.

I really hate these strips since they are very vague.
The water is clear and so far since opening, the pump has been on 24/7.

Thanks for all the info on this site...well, maybe...it hurts my head thinking about it at times. Now hopefully my profile is setup correctly...

 

[JasonLion]

Welcome to TFP!

All of the salt tests are +-400 or so, which means the test strips and the SWG agree with each other within the precision of the tests. There isn't anything you need to do there.

You want to try and make sure the PH never goes above 8.0. The best thing you can do to help with that is to lower your TA to around 70 or 80. The easy way to do that is to lower PH to 7.2 every time it gets up to 7.8, at least until the TA comes down to something more reasonable.

It would be good if you could turn up the SWG percentage a bit. You don't want the FC level getting as low as 1.

CYA around 80 is fine, though I'm not included to trust the test strips for that. The CYA test is the least reliable of the test strip tests, and they are not all that good to begin with. It would be much simpler to take care of the pool if you have more reliable test results.

 

[sduphily]

Thanks for the reply.

I agree about these test strips...I really can't wait until Monday. It's funny...I'm excited to do work!!

Thanks for the heads-up about the salt readings...good to know. Would the Taylor Salt Water Test Kit K-1766 have the same error deviation?

I just turned up to 70% today, so we'll see what happens overnight and through tomorrow. I have been running around 55-60% since day one up until now.

 

[JasonLion]

The Taylor test kit is also +-400 in the normal SWG salt range.

 

[sduphily]

OK, so I ran on 70% all day and the FC was closer to 3 most of the day...it looked as if it dropped to about 2 around the brightest part of the day.

As for lowering the pH, I plan on purchasing Muriatic Acid tomorrow but when I visit Lowe's website, they show "Klean-Strip 1-Gallon Safer Muriatic Acid". I did a search for it since it show any % numbers and I get a hit from this site not to use it for that reason. I am assuming that Lowe's more than likely would carry more than one manufacturer's bottle and that it's just not advertised on-line. Are there things commonly found in some of these bottles that I want to stay away from or do I want to just make sure the bottle shows the % of strength?

 

[brainchasm]

OK, so I ran on 70% all day and the FC was closer to 3 most of the day...it looked as if it dropped to about 2 around the brightest part of the day.

As for lowering the pH, I plan on purchasing Muriatic Acid tomorrow but when I visit Lowe's website, they show "Klean-Strip 1-Gallon Safer Muriatic Acid". I did a search for it since it show any % numbers and I get a hit from this site not to use it for that reason. I am assuming that Lowe's more than likely would carry more than one manufacturer's bottle and that it's just not advertised on-line. Are there things commonly found in some of these bottles that I want to stay away from or do I want to just make sure the bottle shows the % of strength?

I couldn't find the right strength of acid (31.45% aka 20 Baumé) at Home Depot nor Lowes, so I just got it from the pool store. It was pretty cheap, and I only felt marginally dirty going into the store.

At least they don't ask questions/try to sell me anything.

 

[sduphily]

Well, my test kit came Monday, but unfortunatelly I had forgotten in the excitement that I had to go to a conference that same day. Got home today to a clear pool...warned my wife that if it got cloudy for any reason that it would be off-limits to the kids.

Well, I must say that I do like the numbers the new test gave much better...at least I'm more confident of the results:

Test taken 1 hr. before sundown...pool covered in shade (pool surrounded by trees) for at least 60+ min.

FC - 5.6
CC - 0.2
pH - 8.0 / 7.4 (2 drops) / 7.2 (3 drops)
TA - 110
CH - 250
CYA - 50-60

I put a range of 50-60 since I need to lookup the directions on this site for making sure to get a true reading...I was able to faintly see the dot up until 50, but I was sure I read somewhere in another post more specifics on how to do the reading.

I included the results in the pH test the number of drops to lower the reading. At this point, it still looks like I need to lower my TA by bringing the pH down to the 7.2 as you recommended. It just doesn't look as bad now...and I especially like where the FC is sitting at the moment.

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, sduphily

Test taken 1 hr. before sundown...pool covered in shade (pool surrounded by trees) for at least 60+ min.

Are doing an Overnight Chlorine Lost Test (OCLT)? If you are, make sure you turn of the swg overnight.

I would lower your ph down to 7.2. If going forward your ph keeps rising fairly fast, you may want to lower TA...but I would probably give it a little while and see if it is a problem.

I was able to faintly see the dot up until 50, but I was sure I read somewhere in another post more specifics on how to do the reading.

extended cya test kit directions There is a link to a taylor page that shows what the dot should look like when at end of the test.

 

[sduphily]

Thanks for the link, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Added the Muriatic Acid yesterday...the pool calculator rocks!! Brought the pH down to 7.2 without a hitch...although that stuff is very harsh.

A day after the acid increase, and my
TA has dropped to about 95 with my pH holding at 7.4 all day long.

Also aroung 1:00 pm today my FC was 6.4 with no CC now.
I'm attempting my first shutdown of the pump tonight (finally seting the timer) to see how that goes.

 

[sduphily]

Thanks for all the advise to all. It looks as if my SWG is finally working appropriatly...maybe too well now. Latest numbers today:

FC - 8.8
CC - 0.0
pH - 7.6
TA - 95
CH - 240
Didn't test CYA yet.

I turned down the dial to the SWG to lower the output, so that should bring down the FC to a better target. But this raises a question that I was wondering about...

The warranty of the liner and the recommended levels they provide are not quite the levels recommended on this site...go figure.

The recommended levels from TFP with SWG vinyl are:
FC 3-5
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 60-80
CH 50-300
CYA 70-80

The levels from the paperwork state the following levels:
FC 3 max.
pH 7.2-7.4
TA 100
CH 100 min.
Additionally, Over-chlorination can cause fading and make the liner brittle.

My question is what type of levels are we talking about with "over-chlorination"? I would probably feel better keeping my FC to about 4-5, but would this actually cause premature damage to the liner?

What does TA do for the liner?

As for pH, I'm trying to stay near 7.4 anyway, so I'm not so worried about the discrepency there.

 

[linen]

Does the liner manufacturer have a cya level recommendation? My guess is they do not.

A little in the deep end here:
Since cya actually holds some chlorine in reserve, then your FC of 3-5 with a cya level of 60 ppm is an active HOCL (disinfecting chlorine) level of about 0.02-0.03 ppm Cl2. With an FC of 3 and a cya level of 0 ppm, your active HOCL level is about 1.0 ppm Cl2. Bottom line, your levels at 60 ppm cya are much less hard on the liner than the liner manufacturers recomendations if the cya is 0 ppm, which is worst case and must be assumed if not specified! (see: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-water-chemistry-t628.html)

However, I am not sure how your claim process would go since much of the industry does not understand the Chlorine/CYA relationship.

 

[sduphily]

Sorry, forgot to mention the CYA...25ppm min.

I'm just checking to get my ducks in a row because part of the process for the warranty is to bring a water sample to the store monthly. I can already hear it now from them when my levels don't match what they expect.

 

[linen]

So at 25 ppm cya and 3 ppm FC your HOCL level would be 0.052 ppm.

Since cya actually holds some chlorine in reserve, then your FC of 3-5 with a cya level of 60 ppm is an active HOCL (disinfecting chlorine) level of about 0.02-0.03 ppm Cl2.

Since it is a little closer the more accurate range would beat 60ppm cya and 3-5 ppm FC your HOCL level would be 0.020-0.035 ppm Cl2.
Even so, your levels of disinfecting chlorine would still be lower than it would be if you used their recommendations and therefore less damaging to the liner.