What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilling?

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

It's gonna take you forever to add CYA that way; you're better off using the sock method or just dumping it in the skimmer so it ends up in your filters.

You're absolutely right about the fact it takes forever using the bucket; it's still almost all there.
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I'll have to figure out a good place and sock material for the sock method as my pool isn't a 'normal' pool.
Since it's (supposedly) self cleaning, dumping it in the skimmer just spits it back into the pool, unfiltered (see my sig for details).
I 'could' dump it in the debris basket of the debris canister (which 'is' filtered); so that's an option once I wash the filters of green crud.

You said above that you didn't find the answers you needed re: acid washing...what do you mean? I think I gave you all of 'em

I'd have to look back to see the details, but, the fundamental problem I had was that I was unsure for weeks until I talked directly to the pool builder WHAT the white and blue and gray stuff was. The pool builder scared me into filling it back up because he said the plaster was never designed to be left dry for more than a day at most - and mine was dry for many days. The one strip I acid washed came out gray and I was at first scared I had removed the plaster somehow - but it turned out the gray 'is' the plaster.

So my revelation about what exactly the blue and white stuff was came too late for an acid wash, given the pool builder says plaster shouldn't be dry for any longer than it takes to acid wash.

BTW, the pool is bubbling like crazy when I run the cleaner and filter pumps - and the pop-up heads aren't coming up - and the pump baskets aren't filling. Is there a 'prime' procedure when restarting a dry pool now filled?

 

[rock]

What is the best way to clean a pleated cloth cartridge filt

Q: What is the direction of flow (it has three inputs) in a cartridge filter?
Q: What is the best (easiest? fastest? cleanest?) way to clean a cartridge filter?

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[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

I'm trying to wrap this up today --- so I was hoping someone would have a better idea???

I'll also try asking on the Internet and calling the pool supply stores ... but I kind'a was starting to trust your advice so I hope someone has an idea for me that is better than what I'm doing now!

Q: Is there a better way to clean a pool filter (which I'm doing today)?
Q: How are we supposed to prime the pump (it took an hour to get the cleaner pump going yesterday and I need to prime the filter pump today)?

 

[Melt In The Sun]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

If your pumps aren't priming, it's because you've got a bunch of air getting in. Check the gaskets on your pump basket lids.

As for the filter, You'll never get all the staining out of it. As long as you don't have any more obvious debris between the pleats, it's probably fine. When I do mine, I just take the time and spray up and down each pleat with the nozzle. It takes a little while. I'm not aware of any better way to do it. Some pool services use pressure washers, but I've never had the guts to try it.

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

If your pumps aren't priming, it's because you've got a bunch of air getting in. Check the gaskets on your pump basket lids.

Thanks for the answer as I'm trying to get the filter put back today.

Hmmm... I guess you're saying they should prime themselves since they're located at least five feet BELOW the water level of the pool.

It was weird yesterday when I tried to start the spa jet pump. With the lid on or off, the motor sucked all the water out of the basket - and then - nothing. Absolutely nothing. The motor hummed away, pulling air.

I fiddled with all the valves, restricting the outflow, opening the outflow, restricting the inflow, opening the inflow, etc. Many times I shut the pump off, the basket refilled from the outflow side. I would quickly shut the outflow valve, and pump. Nothing. Trying again, I'd open all at half way. Still nothing. Time and time again, nothing came in from the pool side, even though I had opened all the valves and I was obviously five feet below the top of the pool! I was dumfounded. Lid on or off, nothing but air came in from the pool ... so I concluded (erroneously?) it needed to be primed.

So, in keeping with the 'it-needs-prime', I took TWO garden hoses and filled the basket at the pump with the spa jet pump constantly running. At first, all that did was pump garden hose water into the pool. But ... finally, after a few minutes of pumping pure garden hose water back into the pool, SOMETHING clicked and the water started flowing into the pump basket. At that point, I concluded that there must be a tricky method of priming a pump because that made no sense to me that the water from the pool didn't spill into the pump since the pump is five feet under the pool and there are no other valves to open!

Despite my lack of understanding, I was happy to hear from my kids that the spa jets were finally spewing water so I shut the pump off, capped the lid of the basket, and turned it back on to run for about 20 minutes with no problem.

My conclusion? Something is weird about the steps for getting a pump going just after draining the pool.

As for the filter, You'll never get all the staining out of it. As long as you don't have any more obvious debris between the pleats, it's probably fine. When I do mine, I just take the time and spray up and down each pleat with the nozzle. It takes a little while. I'm not aware of any better way to do it.

Thanks again. I need the advice as I'm trying to wrap up the filter cleaning today.

If for no other reason, it lowers my blood pressure to know that there isn't any better way. I'm not worried about staining, per se. It's the layer of slimy green stuff on the pleats that I 'can' easily wash away ... they wash right off with the garden hose set at about 75 PSI. The problem isn't that they don't wash off. The problem is that there must be 1,000 or more pleats, each one of which has to be 'opened' to the water stream!

Worse yet, as I open the pleats to the smaller filter, it seems to rip the two cloth bindings off (do those bindings actually do anything?).

Some pool services use pressure washers, but I've never had the guts to try it.

I did try it with my gas-powered pressure washer at the widest nozzle I had. If I put in any other nozzle, it would rip a hole in a split second. On the gentlest nozzle, it still must be a few hundred PSI so it's pretty powerful. It works, but it shredded the cloth a bit and it shredded the cloth bands so I backed off and went back to the garden hose.

I guess I'll count the pleats and just open each up, one by one. I repeat, there must be a thousand or more as the inside is different than the outside so it's double what it looks like. Plus there are two filters so it's a tedious job.

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

The pool supply store I just called suggested soaking in a garbage can of "Simple Green" but I would think even a garbage can is way to small in diameter for the larger filter (which is the size of a beer keg).

He said he sells "Filter Blaster" which is a spray on to get (he said) "calcium and oils" which don't (he said) come off with the garden hose. I told him I can't imagine any little bottle of spray getting to the insides of thousands of folds.

He did say they sell a tool that goes on the end of the garden hose that spreads the pleats as you swipe against them - but he's all out so I'll have to figure out what that tool is and looks like to see if I can find a second source today.

Q: Anyone know anything about the pleat-spreading tool?

 

[jblizzle]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

http://store.pinchapenny.com/product/Po ... r-75320093

 

[Melt In The Sun]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

Rock, you gotta have your pump lids on and tight if you ever want them to prime With the pumps below water level, there is essentially no way that a pump could lose prime with the lid on. Make sure the o-rings are seated (they love to pop partway out), crank those lids on, and you'll be good to go.

Never seen that pleat spreader before, so I have no idea if it works well. Really, I don't worry about getting every last thing out of the filters. I bet I can get 95% of the debris in 5 minutes of cleaning, and I probably could stop there, but I've always just methodically worked my way around the pleats.

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

http://store.pinchapenny.com/product/Pool-Suppies-Miscellaneous-Pool-Systems-Water-Wand-Cartridge-Cleaner-75320093

Ahah! That's what I'm looking for!
75320093 Water Wand Filter Cartridge Cleaner (Mfg # CWS186 ) (CWL052) $18.99
http://www.poolplaza.com/P-SSP-60-0186.html
http://store.pinchapenny.com/product/Po ... r-75320093

Best price seems to be here (but I'm not sure if it's the same thing):

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

The filters are back in the bubble. I spent another hour cleaning them and I just now finally put 'em back. I opened the air valve and I'm waiting for the bubble to fill as we type.

One thing I noticed before I put 'em back in was that each filter has TWO part numbers (and sizes) on them.

Anyone know why?
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I'm going to go out and power it all up for the smoke test.

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

Drat!

Two of the pumps (the filter pump and the cleaner pump) are leaking rather badly at their inlet connection as shown in the photo below.
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Neither leaks when they're running - but they bubble a decent amount of air (which makes sense since it's sucking in the air at the leak point).

The problem in replacing the fitting is that from that point to the ground, there is not a single pipe. It's all fittings and couplings with three expensive Jandy valves in between.

Given that it's very difficult/expensive to fix "properly", may I ask what workaround 'caulking' is generally used to seal this type of leak?

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

I don't worry about getting every last thing out of the filters

Thanks. I finally put the filters back without cleaning them absolutely perfectly. The filter pump didn't have any problem filling up. The only problem now is tons of air bubbles in because of a leak at the inlet valve.
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I would simply replace the pipe - but - it's (apparently) glued to the Maxi Glass II pump inlet. Is it 'normal' to glue and not screw in the inlet? (the outlet is screwed in so that it can be removed).

With the pumps below water level, there is essentially no way that a pump could lose prime with the lid on.

I agree. The pumps are FIVE feet below the pool waterline. There's no valve in between, so they should be gushing with water. Anyway, when I put the filter cartridges back and buttoned it all up - I had no problem 'priming' the filter pump.

Now my problem is that the filter pump leaks (whenever it's off) from the inlet pipe, which, if you see the pics, is absolutely horrendous to replace.

Is it normal for the inlet pipe to be glued onto the inlet of the pump?
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Since it's horrendous to replace (there are no pipes - just many fittings and three jandy valves from the pump inlet to the ground pipe)... may I ask ...

Q: What sealant do you guys use to seal leaks in the pipes that you can't easily replace?
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[Melt In The Sun]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

It's probably not glued; what looks like glue probably is (should be) teflon pipe dope. How sure are you that it's leaking at that connection, and not somewhere like the pump lid or drain plug? Those spots are much more common, and much easier to fix. To test it you can put some shaving cream all around the joint and see if it gets sucked in, or run the hose over the connection and seeing if the bubbles stop.

If you do have to replace that connection, you can use what's called a pipe extender. Looks like this:
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?produ ... -Extenders

The narrow end fits inside the cut-off pipe, and then you can glue a coupler/elbow/whatever to the big end. You'll have to go to a real plumbing store to get it, but it'll work. I'll be replacing my pump using one of these this weekend, so I'll post some pictures; it's similar to your situation in that there's no room to do any normal pipe splicing.

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

It's probably not glued; what looks like glue probably is (should be) teflon pipe dope.

Some of the fittings 'are' screwed in, and those have pipe dope on them (that's exactly what I used when I screwed in the outlet pipe a couple of days ago in the Jandy valve repair process). However, 'these' fittings 'appear' (to me) to be glued in (which is crazy - but that's what it appears to be).
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How sure are you that it's leaking at that connection

Well, I 'think' that's where the leak lies: the blue PVC cement stopped 'almost' all the bubbling in the basket:
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Now only a small drip is visable (every five seconds or so):
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You can use what's called a pipe extender.

That's a FANTASTIC pointer! (I never knew these existed!)

Mine you, I would 'normally' replace a leaking pipe - but I couldn't figure out how that can be done without removing ALL the pipe going to the pool which included 3 Jandy valves because there is no 'pipe' ... it's just elbows and fittings!

It's nice to know that, shall I fail to plug the leak, I 'can' replace the pipe after all w/o buying a new pump!
Note: In California, one-speed pumps have been illegal to install by professionals for years so I'd have to buy an expensive multi-speed pump even though I don't have a multi-speed controller.
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Now it's time to figure out WHAT to put over the soft blue glue to protect it and to further seal the remaining leak!
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[solarboy]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

I'd use a "Multi-silane polymer" based caulk, often called MPS or PS and is a flexible very tough silicone type sealer. Expensive but tough, sticky and UV resistant. You can find it in marine chandlers and it's also used as a car body seam sealer. Extremely nasty plumbing by the way, it must have been installed by elves with tiny little hands.

 

[solarboy]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ex++505+UV
Hard to find in the US it seems.

 

[rock]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

I'd use a "Multi-silane polymer" based caulk, often called MPS.

Very interesting stuff according to the description. Thanks for the advice.

Here is a picture of the leak, with all the equipment off, that greeted me this morning, given the pressure of at least five feet of water is pushing against this pump inlet at all times when the pump is off:
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Luckily, this leak was relatively easy to replug with the blue PVC glue so 'most' of the major leaks are now plugged.

Of course, now the solar panels are leaking like a sieve ... so plugging the Fafco panels is my 'next' project!
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Luckily, I have lots of experience plugging incessant holes in Fafco solar panels.
These were installed improperly, in my humble opinion, being 15 feet below the level of the pool, you can never get the water out in the winter. Sigh.

Q: Do they make a glue that bonds on contact with water to seal a pressure leak?

 

[Lershac]

Re: What maintenance would you do with a pool before refilli

Just a correction on your acid washing details... Plaster is NOT 1.5 in thick... It may be in spots, but it's usually 1/8 in thick or so an can be even thinner in some spots.