solar clamps

[dholland17]

I recently purchased the Solar Attic product that transfers heat out of my attic and into my pool.
I am installing everything myself, god help me.

1) Is there a product out there to secure the 2" pipes heading up the side of my house without drilling into the siding?

2) Check valves- I know I need one at the solar retrun but do I also need one coming off of the 3 way diverter valve too? I bought the 3 way Hayward valve with the automated Goldline controller and plan on adjusting the cam in the controller to divert some water to solar and some back to the pool because I think my 2 speed pump may try and push too much to solar. The solar unit calls for 50 gpm. I think I need the second check valve to prevent the solar return from feeding back into 3 way valve.

Thanks!

 

[jblizzle]

No help on securing the pipes.

Generally you just want a check valve right after your filter (so solar water draining down does not backwash the filter) and a check valve on the solar return (so water does not go up the return when the solar is off). Water from the solar return will no flow back to the 3-way as the water entering the 3-way from the filter is at a higher pressure.

What size pump do you have? Odds are that you could run the full flow through the solar and not be much over 50gpm anyway unless you have a pretty big pump ... using the diverter is no problem though.

 

[dholland17]

I am not convinced the water will not flow back into the 3 way from the solar retrun since most of my flow will be coming from the solar route.
I'm hoping I can send all of the water to solar (need to install a flow meter to determine that) and the question of installing the 2nd check valve will be a non issue. I suppose I can omit it for now and always add it if I need to divert some flow after the install. I'd rather not have to adjust the cam on the Goldline either but not a big deal if I have to.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[dholland17]

Also, it is one of the Hayward 2 speed Tristar pumps..I need to get the model #, don't have it on me now.
http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literat ... SS11_5.pdf

 

[jblizzle]

I am not convinced the water will not flow back into the 3 way from the solar retrun since most of my flow will be coming from the solar route.

The flow does not work that way ... the pressure will be higher at the 3-way than on the solar return due to friction loses.

OK, let me ask you this, if the water did go back to the 3-way that is partially open, where would the water then go? Certainly would not go back to the filter.

If you have the 3-way closed, then the water would try to flow to ward the valve, but the valve is closed so it does not matter.

 

[dholland17]

I see what you are saying now. So I only need one check valve then..good one less thing to buy!
I wish I knew what my current flow rates are now but have no idea. The Hayward manuals don't jump right out and tell you either. I suppose I should call a Hayward tech and ask. This solar unit will be approx 3 stories (peak of attic) above my pump so we are talking some a lot of head here from what I can tell. 2" pluming all around and I do have a 350K btu propane heater too in the circulation.

 

[jblizzle]

I think you still want 2 check valves:
1. After filter before solar valve
2. On solar return

Mark (mas985) can do a pretty good job of calculating flow rate, but it is not very simple. It is based on how your pool is plumbed, fitting sizes, filter pressure, etc to calculate your head loss. Then you can use the pump curves to get the flow rate.

WHOA .... I just saw your note on how high this is going to be. It may take all your pump has to just prime a system that high (how many feet above the pump is the solar panel?)

 

[dholland17]

Now why would I need the check valve after the filter if the pressure is greater there? Also, I have a cartridge filter if that makes a difference.
The solar unit will be hanging in my attic approx 32 feet above the pump.
Thanks again

 

[jblizzle]

Well, in normal solar systems (granted this may not be you), the 3-way solar valve is actually meant to leak a bit. When the pump turns off, the solar panels actually drain down the "up" pipe and back through the 3-way valve. If you have a DE/sand filter, this water running backwards in the plumbing could backwash the filter some. Many setups do not have this check valve and with a cartridge it may not be needed at all.

You could always add it later if you encountered a problem and just put the one on the solar return.

How does this solar system work? Does it have an air release at the top to purge air when the water is coming up? Does it need to drain when water is not flowing?

I am a little curious what kind of pump is required to reach that height.

 

[jblizzle]

If you want an idea of your flow rate and whether your pump will work, list the following and I will try to get Mark to take a look:

Number and size of suction lines:
Number and size of return lines (size of eyeballs):
Distance between pool and pad:
Distance between pad and house:
Height of pump relative to pool level:
Height of solar relative to pump level: 32 feet
Pump details (Model/HP/SF):
Clean pressure on filter:

 

[dholland17]

I have a 2 story house with an attic and that is not uncommon and since most put their solar on their roof, why is 32 feet of vertical to get there seem like a stretch?
I will purchase a flow meter and adjust from there. No sense in trying to guess what my current flow rate is since this unit is getting installed regardless.
Thanks again

 

[dholland17]

no air release in the unit but I can purchase an adapter that installs in the solar pipes that unlocks the air to drain. My valve is a Hayward three way (see the link) and I believe it is tight so no drain down I believe. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 0892352740

 

[jblizzle]

Well, if you want it to drain down you can drill a small hole in the diverter (I bought the solar valve from Pentair that has a small check valve built into it).

I just know with the head loss of my system and with a 1HP pump I should have just enough pressure to close a air release valve on my 1 story house (according to Mark). If your pump is powerful enough it will not be a problem.

BTW, the problem with most flow meters if you read the details is that they are accurate to +/- 10% of the max on the gauge. So a 100 gpm guage will get you to +/- 10gpm ... the difference between 30 and 50 is pretty big. So really his estimates are probably just as good a a meter.

Think about it in the limit though ... say you had a 10 story house ... if the pump is not powerful enough it does not matter what its listed flow rate is. It will not be able to push the water to the top and your flow rate will be zero.

Like I said, if you want an estimate of your flow rates and feasibility, answer the info I listed above and I will get Mark to take a look. If not, that is fine too and I hope it works out ... likely you will be OK.

 

[jblizzle]

Just looked at the details of those pumps. The smallest 2 speed should be able to get you 60gpm at 65 feet of head ... you are likely right around that for your head loss.

Notice too that the low speed only goes to a little over 20 feet of head ... so low speed could only get the water ~20 feet into the air if there were no other losses (like filter, fittings, pipe, heater, etc).

 

[dholland17]

My pump is the 1.0/.13 HP 2 speed pump have 1.85THP.