Is 80ppm CYA the highest you would recommend? The reason I ask is because I will have to partially drain and refill my pool before I open it, and I live in an area that's under drought watch, so I want to use as little water as possible. Right now I'm looking at about draining half the water (test strips say CYA is around 140ppm, I will do additional testing with a more accurate test kit as it gets closer to having to drain the pool). This pool is in Las Vegas so it gets lots of sun.
CYA - High Level
- Thread starter MisterMister
- Start date
I wouldn't recommend anything over 80 or perhaps 90. You can get by with higher CYA if you have to but it gets to be more and more problematic the higher you go. For example, with CYA at 140 you need to keep FC at 11 or higher but the PH test starts to get less accurate around a FC of 10. Another issue is that the most reliable CYA test only works up to about 90 and test strips (which read higher) can be way way off sometimes. So it is difficult to know what your CYA level really is when it is above 90.
Ok, I spent yesterday draining off approximately half of my pool and refilling, with the intent of getting my CYA down from the 160ish level. After the drain/fill, these are my numbers.
TEMP 62
FC 0
CC 0
TC 0
PH 7.3
TA 170
CH 130
CYA 85
So yes, my CYA did drop, though I wish a little more. 85 is on the upper range, but is that acceptable? I don't want to do the drain/refill thing again unless absolutely necessary.
Also the TA concerns me at 170. One of stickies (SWG I believe), indicates the TA needs to be in the 70 to 90 range, more so toward 70. What should I do? Leave it alone or take action. I've read lower PH and aerate. ?? What is the most effective way to aerate??
How does the rest of my numbers look?
After removing the winter cover, the pool is GREEN. FYI, I've just dumped 8 174 gallons of ultra bleach. Probably the first of many shocks.
Once the pool is stable/balanced, I will turn up the purifier of my newly installed Pool Pilot. I have not yet added the salt.
Again, Thanks for all of the help
Mister Mister
TEMP 62
FC 0
CC 0
TC 0
PH 7.3
TA 170
CH 130
CYA 85
So yes, my CYA did drop, though I wish a little more. 85 is on the upper range, but is that acceptable? I don't want to do the drain/refill thing again unless absolutely necessary.
Also the TA concerns me at 170. One of stickies (SWG I believe), indicates the TA needs to be in the 70 to 90 range, more so toward 70. What should I do? Leave it alone or take action. I've read lower PH and aerate. ?? What is the most effective way to aerate??
How does the rest of my numbers look?
After removing the winter cover, the pool is GREEN. FYI, I've just dumped 8 174 gallons of ultra bleach. Probably the first of many shocks.
Once the pool is stable/balanced, I will turn up the purifier of my newly installed Pool Pilot. I have not yet added the salt.
Again, Thanks for all of the help
Mister Mister
Well, that's higher than I would run mine. Like Jason said, it's certainly doable but it's noticeably harder. If you drained another 1/3, you would be around 50-60 which I would consider ideal and you will save yourself some trouble for the coming summers.
You'll lose just a little of the FC you've put in but probably less than $3-4 bucks worth.
You'll lose just a little of the FC you've put in but probably less than $3-4 bucks worth.
for a SWG your CYA if 85 is fine. However, before turning on the SWG you need to get your FC level up to about 4-5ppm with bleach. If you have any CC when you add chlorine then shock it to get rid of it and let the FC drop to the 4-5 ppm range before turning on the SWG. The easiest way to get your TA down is to lower the pH to 7.O (this could take a bit of acid!) and just wait for it to climb to 7.6-7.8, test the TA and if too high then lower the pH again to 7.0 and repeat. At first your pH will rise fairly fast and your TA might not move very much but if you keep repeating this you will get there. Don't worry too much about the aeration if you don't have an easy way to do it since outgassing will occur naturally, just test the pH daily and when it climbs back up to 7.6 or above test the TA and add acid to lower the pH to 7.0 if the TA is still to high. It will eventually come down and your pH will become much more stable.
If you want to lower the TA quickly then you need a way to aerate the water such as a waterfall, fountain (you can buy a floating one that connects to a return), a group of kids splashing in the water all day, pointing your returns up to break the surface of the water (very inefficient if your only means of aeration), or something to create many fine air bubbles underwater (think aquarium airstone but on a much larger scale!)
Drop the pH to 7.0, start aerating, test TA, and monitor pH. As the pH rises keep adding acid to maintain the pH at 7.O and test the TA. Keep this up until the TA is where you want it and then stop adding acid but continue to aerate until the pH rises to 7.6 and you are done. How fast this process will be depends on how large your pool is, how high your TA is (yours is pretty high) and how well you are able to aerate.
If you want to lower the TA quickly then you need a way to aerate the water such as a waterfall, fountain (you can buy a floating one that connects to a return), a group of kids splashing in the water all day, pointing your returns up to break the surface of the water (very inefficient if your only means of aeration), or something to create many fine air bubbles underwater (think aquarium airstone but on a much larger scale!)
Drop the pH to 7.0, start aerating, test TA, and monitor pH. As the pH rises keep adding acid to maintain the pH at 7.O and test the TA. Keep this up until the TA is where you want it and then stop adding acid but continue to aerate until the pH rises to 7.6 and you are done. How fast this process will be depends on how large your pool is, how high your TA is (yours is pretty high) and how well you are able to aerate.
Dave, It happens to all of us one time or another. :-D That's what happens when you pass 20 years old, the mind starts to go!duraleigh said:
Hello Fellas,
Thanks to the both of you for the quick responses. I really amazes me how much the both of you, and a couple others put into this forum. For those of use who are really trying to get better, we do really greatly appreciate it.
Hey, I was ready to do the drain/refill thing again, though not really looking forward to it. That is A LOT of water. But I was going to wait until my chlorine (shock) dissapated and killing some of this algae, I've tested twice since then and the chlorine it still HIGH. So I was going to push the drain/fill to during the week.
With the new information, I do feel better. Even though it still seems a little high, but I am still a newbie (after 9 years with the pool). So, with 85 being ok, I'll go with it. At least I won't need to add CYA for a while
Poured my first bleach into the pool earlier today, 8 174oz ultra jugs. Seems kind of wierd to me, but I'll get used to it. Some 4 hours later, the quck 5 drop test is still way off the scale. Poor little algies .
On the TA, my wife has this little party flotting fountain thing, I may break it out of the box. I also have a "small" pump I used to drain my hot tub. I may also use that and rig some sort of spray to spray the water back into the pool from a height. I'll work on it.
So outside of the CYA and TA, the other numbers look good, outside of the chlorine of course. I bleached it immidiately after those test. And, with the 85 CYA, and with the SWG, what should my target FC be? 5? at least until I can wear the 85 CYA down. Any the target CYA with the SWG should be 50 maybe??
Again, thanks bunches,
Mister Mister
Thanks to the both of you for the quick responses. I really amazes me how much the both of you, and a couple others put into this forum. For those of use who are really trying to get better, we do really greatly appreciate it.
Hey, I was ready to do the drain/refill thing again, though not really looking forward to it. That is A LOT of water. But I was going to wait until my chlorine (shock) dissapated and killing some of this algae, I've tested twice since then and the chlorine it still HIGH. So I was going to push the drain/fill to during the week.
With the new information, I do feel better. Even though it still seems a little high, but I am still a newbie (after 9 years with the pool). So, with 85 being ok, I'll go with it. At least I won't need to add CYA for a while
Poured my first bleach into the pool earlier today, 8 174oz ultra jugs. Seems kind of wierd to me, but I'll get used to it. Some 4 hours later, the quck 5 drop test is still way off the scale. Poor little algies
. On the TA, my wife has this little party flotting fountain thing, I may break it out of the box. I also have a "small" pump I used to drain my hot tub. I may also use that and rig some sort of spray to spray the water back into the pool from a height. I'll work on it.
So outside of the CYA and TA, the other numbers look good, outside of the chlorine of course. I bleached it immidiately after those test. And, with the 85 CYA, and with the SWG, what should my target FC be? 5? at least until I can wear the 85 CYA down. Any the target CYA with the SWG should be 50 maybe??
Again, thanks bunches,
Mister Mister
With the SWG you should be fine with about 4 ppm FC. Until you get it online you want to keep it higher, around 9-10 and would need to shock to around 30 ppm if you are killing algae.MisterMister said:
I think I've decided to drain/fill (this afternoon) about 18 inches of the pool just to get the CYA to a more comfort level. Also to keep from having to shock with chlorine at such a high level. Is 30ppm chlorine a safe level for a vinyl liner? What is that magic safe FC number for a vinyl liner?
Thanks
Thanks
The "magic" number is CYA dependant as well as length of exposure time......there's only some general guidelines but it's based on your CYA level
with your CYA as high as it is the actual active chlorine is not really going to be that high at 30 ppm. It will be about the same as shocking to 15 ppm with a much lower cya (say around 40) so don't lose any sleep over it. I would not bother with the fill and drain if it were my pool.
Realize that the worst that can happen is a bit of liner bleaching but no real damage otherwise. This is the main disadvantage to vinyl pools and bleaching can occur at even so called 'normal' shock levels. The real threat to a vinyl liner is low pH. Make sure you pH never drops below 7.0 and you are fine!
Realize that the worst that can happen is a bit of liner bleaching but no real damage otherwise. This is the main disadvantage to vinyl pools and bleaching can occur at even so called 'normal' shock levels. The real threat to a vinyl liner is low pH. Make sure you pH never drops below 7.0 and you are fine!
FC 2.5
CC .2 (See question below)
TC 2.7
PH 7.5 (Goes up when I add "fresh" water)
TA 180 (Goes up when I add "fresh" water)
CYA 58 (Previous 170 - drain/fill half, then 85 - drain/fill 18")
Temp 67
Ok, so I did it anyway. After 9 years of being out of wack in my pool chemistry, I want for it to be as close to perfect now as possible. I did't like the fact of being slightly on the high side with 85 CYA, so I did drain about 18" off to lower it slightly, so I would be in the 60-80 range, shooting for 65. Maybe I should have just stuck with the 85, but I didn't want the "extra" chlorine that would be needed. I know we can go around and around on that one. I just didn't want to be on the high side and need to drain the pool, I wanted to just get all of that behind me. If I need to add, I'll add, just no more draining. SO, now my CYA is 58, I overshot it a little. Is that good or should I add just a little.
So now that I think I have the CYA in hand, now I am focusing on the high TA. By the way, the pool is still just a little green, but probably 70% better than what it was. I just poured .5 gal acid to get the PH down, while doing a little aerating. I plan to build a rig similar to Duraleigh's tomorrow evening for proper aeration. Proceed through probably gallons of acid until I get the TA down.
Am I proceeding down the correct path? Is it wise to finish the algae battle while fighting the TA? Or do them both? Oh, by the way, I found a left over jug of 20% algaecide, so I tossed it in, the algaecide, not the jug. I don't remember the ounces, maybe 1/2 gal or so.
My CC question. I do the FC portion of the chlorine test. No problems. I add the 5 drops of R-0003, and if sample turns back to pink, I have CCs. Ok, it goes to a very light pink. ?? If at that point I add the R-0871 until clear the multiple time .5, I loose the logic. The sample is immediately clear after the first drop of R-0871, multiplied by the .5 gives me .5, instantly too high for CC. Any shade of pink will put you too high on CC. OR am I COMPLETELY missing the point, overlooking the obvious??? I see other's test results with a .2, how can you get that. This is probably going to be another "stupid" question, but I've heard there is no such thing, so ... . .
Thanks again for all of the help,
Starting to see the glimmer at the end of the tunnel. Hope it's not a train. If so, I'm jumping on.
Mister Mister
CC .2 (See question below)
TC 2.7
PH 7.5 (Goes up when I add "fresh" water)
TA 180
(Goes up when I add "fresh" water)CYA 58 (Previous 170 - drain/fill half, then 85 - drain/fill 18")
Temp 67
Ok, so I did it anyway. After 9 years of being out of wack in my pool chemistry, I want for it to be as close to perfect now as possible. I did't like the fact of being slightly on the high side with 85 CYA, so I did drain about 18" off to lower it slightly, so I would be in the 60-80 range, shooting for 65. Maybe I should have just stuck with the 85, but I didn't want the "extra" chlorine that would be needed. I know we can go around and around on that one. I just didn't want to be on the high side and need to drain the pool, I wanted to just get all of that behind me. If I need to add, I'll add, just no more draining. SO, now my CYA is 58, I overshot it a little. Is that good or should I add just a little.
So now that I think I have the CYA in hand, now I am focusing on the high TA. By the way, the pool is still just a little green, but probably 70% better than what it was. I just poured .5 gal acid to get the PH down, while doing a little aerating. I plan to build a rig similar to Duraleigh's tomorrow evening for proper aeration. Proceed through probably gallons of acid until I get the TA down.
Am I proceeding down the correct path? Is it wise to finish the algae battle while fighting the TA? Or do them both? Oh, by the way, I found a left over jug of 20% algaecide, so I tossed it in, the algaecide, not the jug. I don't remember the ounces, maybe 1/2 gal or so.
My CC question. I do the FC portion of the chlorine test. No problems. I add the 5 drops of R-0003, and if sample turns back to pink, I have CCs. Ok, it goes to a very light pink. ?? If at that point I add the R-0871 until clear the multiple time .5, I loose the logic. The sample is immediately clear after the first drop of R-0871, multiplied by the .5 gives me .5, instantly too high for CC. Any shade of pink will put you too high on CC. OR am I COMPLETELY missing the point, overlooking the obvious??? I see other's test results with a .2, how can you get that. This is probably going to be another "stupid" question, but I've heard there is no such thing, so ... . .
Thanks again for all of the help,
Starting to see the glimmer at the end of the tunnel. Hope it's not a train. If so, I'm jumping on.
Mister Mister
When it only takes one drop to clear the pink while measuring CC then you don't need to worry about CC. The test is telling you that you have between zero and 0.5 of CC and given your description it is probably much closer to zero. I expect that the CC is coming from the new water one way or another and will go away completely once things settle down.
With a CYA level of 58 shock level is 18 and for normal operation you never want to let FC go below 4 and should aim to keep it at 5 or higher.
You can work on TA and algae at the same time up to a point, though it can make things more complicated. The constraint is that when the FC level is above 10 the PH test starts to become unreliable. At first there will be plenty of time when the FC level is back down but at the end of fighting algae you are going to need to hold FC around 18 for a while, which will prevent you from measuring PH for lowering the TA.
Your TA is high, but it won't cause any problems other than PH drift. I would go ahead and fight the algae now, so you have clear water and a beautiful pool to look at, and deal with the TA after. Other than appearance, it isn't going to make a huge difference which order you do things in.
With a CYA level of 58 shock level is 18 and for normal operation you never want to let FC go below 4 and should aim to keep it at 5 or higher.
You can work on TA and algae at the same time up to a point, though it can make things more complicated. The constraint is that when the FC level is above 10 the PH test starts to become unreliable. At first there will be plenty of time when the FC level is back down but at the end of fighting algae you are going to need to hold FC around 18 for a while, which will prevent you from measuring PH for lowering the TA.
Your TA is high, but it won't cause any problems other than PH drift. I would go ahead and fight the algae now, so you have clear water and a beautiful pool to look at, and deal with the TA after. Other than appearance, it isn't going to make a huge difference which order you do things in.
MrMr,
You're cool on CC's. Use "Greater than .5" as your bellweather for CC's. I almost always get .5 CC's in my tests and have learned to ignore it.
.2 increments come from using a 25ml sample of water rather than 10ml. I have never had a use for measuring that closely but I've seen others report it many times.
You're cool on CC's. Use "Greater than .5" as your bellweather for CC's. I almost always get .5 CC's in my tests and have learned to ignore it.
.2 increments come from using a 25ml sample of water rather than 10ml. I have never had a use for measuring that closely but I've seen others report it many times.