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Thread: Soon to be building?

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    Soon to be building?

    Hello all, I am new to the pool forum and to entertaining thoughts of having a pool built. Hence the name, newfool. Spending much money to dig a hole in the backyard :P

    I would love any and all advice as well as your thoughts on:

    1. In floor cleaners
    2. variable speed vs. 2 speed vs. single speed pumps - potential electricity savings, sizing for 11-13k gallon pool, etc.
    3. automation for cleaning - is it something that can be easily added later as money will be tight during this phase

    I have enclosed a proposed shape/design. The pool area is roughly 400 sq. feet so it will be a small pool. I am trying to make the pool very economical to own, so there will be no pool heater (in FL anyways). The finish will be Pebble Tec sheen. There will be no back raised wall, it was an option my wife and I were toying with but it would be too expensive and not really make sense as there is no real good way of centering it (imho).
    Thanks to all for looking at my ramble.
    - John
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12-15k gallons capacity, 18'x34'
    2 main drains 4 returns 1 vacuum line
    pentair intelliflo 4x160 pump 200 sq ft media filter full width (~7' wide) swimout at deep end
    pebble sheen white diamonds

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Hi John and welcome aboard!

    We have a Pentair Legend Platinum, it came highly recommended and has been doing a good job on our pool. I hear "The Pool Cleaner" is also a good pressure side cleaner.

    Our pool is about the size of yours and we're running a Pentair 4x160 with a booster pump for the cleaner. We have a large waterfall and grotto, so we needed a variable speed pump (low speed for filtering, moderate for cleaning, high for running the features). It's great when coupled with automation.

    Quote: "automation for cleaning - is it something that can be easily added later as money will be tight during this phase"

    If all you'll be needing it for is running your filtering and cleaning cycles, consider the SunTouch. It's a new Pentair product that is a simpler version for people that don't need elaborate controls. It was a cost add to us of 500 bucks over time clocks including a remote. If you don't need a remote that'll save a couple hundred.

    Good luck!
    Our pool adventure... click here

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Awesome, thank you TresW! Do you have any idea how much power your pump consumes? At what GPM? Thanks in advance

    Does anyone know from experience how well the infloor cleaning systems are? Most companies say that they will leave the pool 99% clean - marketing of course - how about real world pros and cons? Anyone?
    12-15k gallons capacity, 18'x34'
    2 main drains 4 returns 1 vacuum line
    pentair intelliflo 4x160 pump 200 sq ft media filter full width (~7' wide) swimout at deep end
    pebble sheen white diamonds

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfool
    Does anyone know from experience how well the infloor cleaning systems are? Most companies say that they will leave the pool 99% clean - marketing of course - how about real world pros and cons? Anyone?
    It is my considered opinion that they just aren't worth it. It looks good on paper but unless your debris load is minimal they don't perform as advertised (of course with a minimal debris load, you don't need an infloor system )

    With one of these systems you are adding a lot of extra equipment that can and will eventually need to be fixed/ replaced. The pop-up heads have do be installed 'just right' for the system to work. Any pressure issues with the pump and filter will effect performance. Most auto vacs or robot cleaners do as good a job. No matter what you get you WILL have to manually vacuum from time to time! You've got 20 - 30 holes in the floor which just creates problems if you ever decide you don't want to use the system anymore (ANYONE, who puts one of these in a liner pool is an IDIOT -- every hole you cut in a liner is a potential leak! {I'm speaking of PBs, not homeowners who got duped into one!}) While it's nice to have heated and chemically treated water enter the pool from the floor, they make floor returns which can accomplish the same thing.

    I'm starting to sound a little 'rant-y' so I'll leave it as is for now. If anyone has questions about what I've said or why I said what I did, I'm always happy to back up my opinions/ assertions

    HTH - Ted
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Ted, you hit the nail on the head! I was researching the very same some more and for my size pool that will be screen enclosed with no nearby trees, the robot is looking better. Tell me more on what you know about floor returns please!
    12-15k gallons capacity, 18'x34'
    2 main drains 4 returns 1 vacuum line
    pentair intelliflo 4x160 pump 200 sq ft media filter full width (~7' wide) swimout at deep end
    pebble sheen white diamonds

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    We are down to our final PB's! Hopefully we can give a decision this week. We are all very excited Bear with me, I am sure to have an onslaught of new questions as soon as we choose one and get to the brass tacks of the contract. With any luck we will have our very own backyard oasis in about 2 months.
    12-15k gallons capacity, 18'x34'
    2 main drains 4 returns 1 vacuum line
    pentair intelliflo 4x160 pump 200 sq ft media filter full width (~7' wide) swimout at deep end
    pebble sheen white diamonds

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you on the floor returns

    In a nutshell, they add filtered (and heated or treated) water at the bottom of the pool instead of the top. They should be flush with the floor so as not to create a tripping hazard. You do still need to have the directional wall returns to assist in carrying any blown in debris to the skimmer (s) for removal before it can sink to the bottom. They are made by lots of companies - so should be easy to find (I can't say if any are better or worse than others). The plumbing for them can be a little tricky - getting equal flow to all of them.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  8. Back To Top    #8
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    i dont have floor returns, but what the origional builder did and i found this out when replaceing the liner last month (under warranty thankfully) is the pool origionally had 8 returns. 2 shallow ones about 3 ft down, and 2 in the deep end about 5 feet down. then the 4 that are around the pool. when i bought the house last year it had 4 returns. called the origional owners of the house and they said we closed them off because we did not want to get a bigger pump and filter to support them all. so i opened them back up and when we have the mola i will be replaceing with a much more powerful pump to drive them all. im really excited.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    No problem at all waste, ty for replying. The PB said he didnt care if we wanted the returns at different heights. He mentioned that they put them in at a standard height because they are directional. Tell me more about balancing the pressure? You mentioned that it is tricky and I do believe someone said to put them each on there own line with a ball valve to balance, with this being a small 12k gallon pool is it necessary to even worry about it?
    12-15k gallons capacity, 18'x34'
    2 main drains 4 returns 1 vacuum line
    pentair intelliflo 4x160 pump 200 sq ft media filter full width (~7' wide) swimout at deep end
    pebble sheen white diamonds

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfool
    Awesome, thank you TresW! Do you have any idea how much power your pump consumes? At what GPM? Thanks in advance

    Does anyone know from experience how well the infloor cleaning systems are? Most companies say that they will leave the pool 99% clean - marketing of course - how about real world pros and cons? Anyone?
    I don't know how much power the pump consumes, but it is the most efficient pump in the industry. The GPM is dependent upon the pump speed (and the pipe sizes, length, etc. etc.) There are 4 "speeds" to the pump, but actually each of the 4 speeds can be adjusted to whatever RPM you want. If you've got it hooked up to automation you adjust the pump speed using the controller, you never have to touch the pump.

    Infloor cleaning systems are pricey, but I have never heard a person that had one say they wish they hadn't spent the money on it. Those that have them really love them. The only complaint I've ever read on them is that if the pool is complex there can be some "dead spots" in it that need to be swept now and then.
    Our pool adventure... click here

  11. Back To Top    #11
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    In floor cleaning systems are great till they break. They have more parts to jam and more places for leaks to develop than a regular pool. They also put more stress on the pump and filter and take more electricity to run than the alternatives. They can work like a dream for years and they can cause endless problems.

    We decided against an in floor system. Cleaning out the skimmer basket is more work than running our robotic cleaner. Why risk the added complexity. Now there are areas where you get nearly constant blown in dust, and in those places an in floor system can make a huge difference.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Yes, the PB said that he too has a 4x160 pump and is very happy with it. He mentioned that in CA its the only pump allowed in some areas due to its effeciency. Don't know if its true but sounds logical with the expense of energy there. I had to nix the in floor because of cost 2-3k with $xx for replacement parts and heads, forget it. Buy a robot at least you know how much they are and where the are when they break! Thanks again all for the info. As soon as we get underway I will post photos.
    - John
    12-15k gallons capacity, 18'x34'
    2 main drains 4 returns 1 vacuum line
    pentair intelliflo 4x160 pump 200 sq ft media filter full width (~7' wide) swimout at deep end
    pebble sheen white diamonds

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