question about adding chemicals

I'm not sure it's necessary for another complete set of test results or to perform the OCLT. Your description tells me that your probably 90% done with the process. (although test results NEVER hurt anything, they only help us)

Describe how your water looks now.
 
Well, it looks like a little of the foam is starting to return (maybe as the FC has decreased some?). But still looks a lot better than this morning. The water is blue with a deep white cloud in it. Again most of the foam is gone, and I can see about 6 inches down the side of the liner if I'm standing at the edge. Been working so much out front I haven't had a chance to do tonights FC test, but maybe after a shower.
 
Excessive flow rate pushes the dirt right through the sand.
Perhaps, but not always. If that is the case, you should be able to see or capture dirt coming back into the pool from the returns.

DE would only further restrict the flow so I don't think that would be a good idea. If you still have foam, you still have organics in your pool and you need to keep your FC at shock value until that foam disappears.
 
Even under good conditions, a sand filter can only get down to about 20 microns. With the oversized pump, it's likely that the filter is not even getting down to 50 microns. 50 micron particles are large enough to be seen and to cause noticeable cloudiness.
 
JamesW said:
Even under good conditions, a sand filter can only get down to about 20 microns. With the oversized pump, it's likely that the filter is not even getting down to 50 microns. 50 micron particles are large enough to be seen and to cause noticeable cloudiness.


So does that mean that my setup isn't capable of clearing the water, or that it's just going to take longer?
 
I am fortunate to be friends with Brice Johnson who is an engineer by education and employed as a filter engineer by pentair.

I posed the question to him about pumps pushing dirt through a filter and here is his response....

In general, we (and NSF and most recognized pool regulatory agencies) recommend no greater than 20 GPM/sq ft of filtration area in a sand filter. In some of our larger filters (TR100 and TR140) we recommend slightly less unless using our commercial versions, which have multiple diffusers to better distribute the water. When flow gets too high in a sand filter, it can create an uneven sand bed, or what you will sometimes hear referred to as channeling. You won’t so much see the pump “push dirt” through the filter as you will see it compromise the sand bed depth, and thus the filtration capability of that sand bed. It can also disrupt the integrity of that sand bed. If it is constantly agitated then the dirt could potentially work its way down through the sand bed as opposed to getting caught up in it. As to how big the pump would have to be, it of course depends on the system head and how it relates to the performance curve of the pump, but we do cite maximum flow rates on our filters which are generally based on that 20 GPM/sq ft rule. From the NSF 50 standard, here are the rules on sand bed flatness that generally assure effective filtration (but of course a lot depends on the type/quality of sand as well; we typically recommend #20 silica sand with a uniformity coefficient of 1.75 or less):

So, what I take from that is that a big pump can certainly disrupt the effectiveness of a filter but I am not sure it "pushes" dirt through.
 
Thanks guys. And espcially thanks to duraleigh for checking with your friend on that. I'm sure that's good information, not just for myself, but to maybe help others in the future. For future knowledge....when it comes time to replace my pump and or filter, what two sizes would you say are best compatable with each other? It may say in your friend's response to your question, but I wasn't smart enough to understand most of it.

Time for an update. Yesterday, after over a week with not much notable change in water clarity, I put in some water clarifier. It has helped considerably. I can now see the bottom of the shallow end of my pool, and about half way down the walls leading to the deep end. It's been in for a little over 24 hours with the bottle saying to give a full 36 hours before reapplying if needed. I hope this is gonna get me to where I want to be. Thanks for all the help.

Another thing that I'm worried about....without going into why (long story for another thread)now that I can see the floor, my liner has some pretty large creases in it at the bottom of the shallow end. Any way with a full pool to get those wrinkles out? Thanks.
 

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Choose a pump that turns your water three times daily (that's a broad generality) and then choose a filter about 25% larger.

25k pool so the pump needs to "turn" 75k of water in 24 hours (75,000/24 = 3175gph/60 = 52gpm for the pump, so then about 60-70gpm for the filter.

Any way with a full pool to get those wrinkles out?
No. They will come out only with a full drain and reseating the liner, perhaps not even then. :(
 
gcates said:
Another thing that I'm worried about....without going into why (long story for another thread)now that I can see the floor, my liner has some pretty large creases in it at the bottom of the shallow end. Any way with a full pool to get those wrinkles out? Thanks.

Ya.....I did that too a few years ago. :grrrr:
 
Another thing that I'm worried about....without going into why (long story for another thread)now that I can see the floor, my liner has some pretty large creases in it at the bottom of the shallow end. Any way with a full pool to get those wrinkles out? Thanks.
I remember a thread a long while back...wrinkles & plunger. Just FYI:


wrinkles-t6053.html?hilit=wrinkles plunger
 
Alright guys it's been several days since my last post, but I wanted to come here to give an update and to give one last thanks to this entire board, and everyone who specifically responded to help me on my first algea killing journey. My filter wasn't clearing the water up on it's own, but after a couple of water clarifier doses, my water is crystal. All my numbers are good at this point except my CYA which is still a little high (60). I am seriously considering becoming a contributor to this site because you all have been my "pool guy" so far this year. I still have creases that I'll try to get worked out with the plunger, but after taking my first swim of the year knowing what my water looked like a few weeks ago, I feel pretty good. Here are two final pictures along with the very first to show how far you guys have brought me. Thanks!!
 

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gcates said:
I really am not trying to go against what you're saying and I inderstand we need to know what my numbers look like. But ths stuff is really overwhelming me, and I'm afraid I'm gonna start losing my hair over this. I know that pool school says that begginer readings on cya are usually high, could that be what's going on. Apparently my CH is off too. ????
Gcates, remember back when you wrote this! Now look at you! Pool looks awesome!
 
linen said:
Looks great gcates :whoot: Way to go :goodjob:

What clarifier did you use and how much? Bama Rambler is gathering information on clarifier success rates.

Sorry it's taken me so long, but I wanted to answer your question. I used pool time super water clarifier. I used 6.6oz and I did 3 treatments. But the last one was after a vacum that stirred up a lot of dead algae that had settled on the bottom. Well worth the money.
 
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